Another new Brexit thread

[Cheesy]

Yep - it is disappointing that so many posters on here support the EU seeking to constrain the UK so that UK interests are damaged - just so that they bask in being able to say they were right on a football forum

There's an element of truth to this no doubt.

I would rather we hadn't left the EU, but now that we have I'm desperate for a good deal for our country. Currently, I couldn't give much of a shit what the EU want.

 

[Vic]

Some are still locked in the world of pre June 2016 campaigning - they simply have not gotten over the electorate having the temerity to vote to Leave

I like the Merriam-Webster definition of temerity.

unreasonable or foolhardy contempt of danger or opposition

 

[Vic]

There's an element of truth to this no doubt.

I would rather we hadn't left the EU, but now that we have I'm desperate for a good deal for our country. Currently, I couldn't give much of a shit what the EU want.

That's a brilliant negotiating stance. A step up from cake and eat it.

 

[Rascal]

Alastair Campbell: The 23-year-old book that explains Brexit

'The Sovereign Individual' was co-authored by William Rees-Mogg, father of Jacob. Its politics are those of the modern libertarian right

www.tortoisemedia.com

Interesting read.

I wouldn't call it interesting, i would call it chilling.

In the piece the word that stands out is "compulsion". Hayek uses compulsion as meaning subjugating to market forces. It is a defence of Classic Liberalism. I said a few pages back that this is where by design the likes of the ERG and the crackpot RW libertarians want to take us. They are vehemently anti Socialist, anti statist and abhor Marx. They see rampant individualism as the way forward and for want of better words, the dog eat dog society is their end goal where the fittest survive and claim the wealth for themselves whilst the rest rot in poverty. Being virulently anti-statist they are of course against the likes of the welfare state and the NHS.

I found this, it expresses it far more eloquently and with far greater depth of knowledge than i could ever dream of possessing. It is a tough read, but worth a look

“The invisible hand of the market”: Friedrich Hayek’s neoliberal faith - ABC Religion & Ethics

 

[Vic]

Yep - it is disappointing that so many posters on here support the EU seeking to constrain the UK so that UK interests are damaged - just so that they bask in being able to say they were right on a football forum

As opposed to the need to prove they were wrong...

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Let us know when a new deal is better than what we had previously via the EU.

Let us know how much we're paying for it.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Oh dear, like a moth to a flame.

No idea why we are bothering with this cut and paste of an existing deal. Shouldn’t we have pushed for ‘Australian terms’ and ‘prospered mightily’?

Another one of the perpetually wrong, you've been telling us that any deals we attempt will take years. if not decades, well that was yet more bullshit wasn't it? And what is the problem adopting a deal under existing arrangements, if they're satisfactory, without adopting Mexican laws to be the arbiter of them,
and not paying for the privilege?
Each and every one of your forecasts keep getting tossed into the bin of remoaner objections, which is about the size of a fucking skip now.

 

[blueparrot]

Let us know how much we're paying for it.

In money, or jobs, os ease of travel, or ease of doing business ?

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Nope - utter bollocks

We have spent 4 years negotiating with the EU - not Europe

And 3 of those were wasted due to the prominence of Remainers leading from the UK side

The last 12 months has been great to observe

Well for me - you seem to be utterly crestfallen to see the UK do well

Well of course there's going to be massive disappointment seeing the country do well. It must be heartbreaking knowing that the place you hate, and actively
want the place to go down the shitter, isn't actually following the pattern you crave.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

In money, or jobs, os ease of travel, or ease of doing business ?

Upfront billions before we start? None of that as far as I can see.
I've not heard of flight bans to Mexico as yet, but Covid may have restricted
them, I'll check if you like.
Ease of business shouldn't be a problem, see posts above.

 

[squirtyflower]

That's a brilliant negotiating stance. A step up from cake and eat it.

I think @Cheesy is going to wake up with a bit of surprise this morning when he finds out he’s been made part of the negotiation team.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

well considering taking back control was one of the main points talked about during the vote and every election we’ve had after - I’d assume that is one of the main reasons people voted

we also had an election where leaving the single market and customs union was one of the main policies

So far, if things pan out, this country will be out of the SM, CU and ECJ.
These are the three primary tenets of the EU, and will satisfy Brexit voters,
coupled with a FTA, if that's agreed, then what you say has happened.

 

[stonerblue]

Dark web, mate ;-)

At 60 notes for 5g its a bit steep. Hopefully an unintended consequence of brxt will be a drop in price.

 

[blueparrot]

S

Upfront billions before we start? None of that as far as I can see.
I've not heard of flight bans to Mexico as yet, but Covid may have restricted
them, I'll check if you like.
Ease of business shouldn't be a problem, see posts above.

So you don't know yet how much saving a bit is going to cost to business in costs and jobs and prices,fair enough neither do I. Think most people travel around europe not mexico from the UK, could be wrong.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

S

So you don't know yet how much saving a bit is going to cost to business in costs and jobs and prices,fair enough neither do I. Think most people travel around europe not mexico from the UK, could be wrong.

I know there's been a trade deal that mirrors the original EU deal, so that being the case I fail to see the cost and jobs connection, whatever it was/is
continues I'd have thought.
All without guaranteeing free movement, adopting Mexican law, or paying for it, the travel bit I'm at a loss to understand, sorry.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I think I have found a Brexit benefit. Where do I claim my prize.

UK and US close to deal on cutting tariffs, says White House trade chief

Talks on reducing charges on items such as Scotch whisky follow UK move to drop levy on Boeing

www.theguardian.com

 

[Ban-jani]

The more "genuine" the Brexit, the more damaging to the UK's future.

Everyone admits it but you.

I think Brexit is daft as fuck. I think we’re making a big mistake and the EU needs to be a genuine rival to China and whilst allied with them, the US is too.

We had the chance to be apart of a genuine superpower on our own continent and a force for good in being so, with it being a superpower that’s liberal and democratic.

I think we’ve bollocks’d that and the continent will be worse for it and our economy will struggle.

I am just saying that so my position is clear...

However, I’d have Johnson’s withdrawal agreement over May’s 100%.

Rather than one home nation being in a dual Customs Union with the EU and UK, whilst taking the vast majority of its political direction from London, and with the ability to leave the EU CU in the future... we would have had the entire UK in the EU CU until they told us otherwise.

In the course of a century we’d have gone from one of the most powerful countries on earth to being a state that is told what to do by its smaller neighbours.

It was a disastrous agreement and whilst many on here will correctly say that we’re not one of the big big players anymore, we at least will have a lot more control over our future than if May’s Chequers agreement had passed Parliament.

 

[BobKowalski]

Another one of the perpetually wrong, you've been telling us that any deals we attempt will take years. if not decades, well that was yet more bullshit wasn't it? And what is the problem adopting a deal under existing arrangements, if they're satisfactory, without adopting Mexican laws to be the arbiter of them,
and not paying for the privilege?
Each and every one of your forecasts keep getting tossed into the bin of remoaner objections, which is about the size of a fucking skip now.

To recap:

We have been working on these rollover deals for years. These agreements are good. We had them already. Some cover less than before. In others we need to renegotiate.

The one deal that arguably hasn’t taken years will be the EU deal we are working on, but then it’s a skinny little thing, has nothing on services and lots of issues will carry over into next year and beyond.

 

[BobKowalski]

Typical distraction

The WA was the legacy of the Remainer led era

This TA has been led by the pro-Brexit lobby and it is the (almighty) EU that are also giving ground as they face the genuine prospect of a no-deal outcome:

Katya Adler
@BBCkatyaadler

Replying to
@BBCkatyaadler
On EU side, guesses are that chief negotiator Barnier will -in the end- call the bluff of EU coastal nations. Along the lines of: If you don’t compromise on fish, we’ll have no deal at all - at far greater cost!.. This is for the coming hours/days, Im told /8

11:44 AM · Dec 16, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

The WA was agreed and signed by this Govt. The NI protocols, an internal customs border, leaving NI partly in the EU were all the product of this Govt.

In other news the EU may compromise on fish. A prediction that has been confidently made for the past few months by virtually everyone on this board.

 

[BobKowalski]

So far, if things pan out, this country will be out of the SM, CU and ECJ.
These are the three primary tenets of the EU, and will satisfy Brexit voters,
coupled with a FTA, if that's agreed, then what you say has happened.

*cough* NI says hi.