With the caveat that football crowds weren't necessarily more civil in the 70s and 80s - racism, hooliganism, other things, plus my mum has several horror stories of being felt up on the Kippax throughout the 70s and 80s - there was definitely a sense of respect and admiration from the fans to opposition players and managers that was disappearing when I was a kid in the 2000s and was basically extinct by the time social media came along to kick it into touch.
A story from my friend's dad has always stuck with me more than anything. He was in the Stretford End just before Christmas in 1977 as Brian Clough's Forest came to town and battered United up and down the pitch. It finished 4-0. He said that the entire ground was so mesmerised by the football Forest were playing that, at the end of the game, they were clapped off the pitch as the Stretford End sang "Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, Brian Clough".
Could you imagine, say, Fulham's fans applauding us off the pitch if we go there and batter them 4-0 later this season? The other week when we brought Tony Book out for his 90th birthday I was actually surprised to see the Brentford fans clapping him. When Jesus came on for Arsenal last month - a player who's won countless titles and cups with us - there were people around me booing him for fuck's sake. Something has changed since the 90s.
I remember bits and pieces from the 2000s - like Wenger's Arsenal team being clapped off the pitch at Maine Road when they were 4-0 up at half-time, Ronaldo being applauded off by the whole Old Trafford crowd in that 4-3 game, or Henry being cheered when he came over to take a corner by the North Stand. And I'm sure we all remember the #JFT96 banner the City away fans took to Anfield at the height of the title race in 2014. Bitterness has ramped up.
It's such a shame that there isn't as much goodwill between fans these days. For a million reasons and one it's not just about hoping your team wins and then taking it on the chin when you don't. I don't know if it's social media keeping us all connected and obsessed at every minute of the day, or just a gradual breakdown of community, but football feels way more stressful, it feels like there's much more at stake, more to lose than ever before.
And I think this is obvious when rows about ticket prices start. There are thousands of football fans - more of us than there are members of the FA or owners of football clubs - but we almost never come together to fight ticket prices going up or shit kick-off times. It always becomes about "empty seats" jibes above all else. The only time fans truly came together in recent years was to fight off the Super League, but that was a rare, rare event, sadly.
I think a lot of it comes from the majority of people no longer being class conscious and no longer being politically aware or active. Football has drifted further and further away from being a working class game and the attitudes of the fans have gone with it. There's no sense that we're all in it together, no sense that football crowds can be powerful examples of community and regional strength - it's just hoping one millionaire scores more than another.
And when you take that sort of heart out of the game, what goes with it is mutual appreciation and respect. if you tried praising Klopp's incredible Liverpool team on here between 2018 and 2022 you'd just have people telling you to fuck off and "stop kissing that Scouse twat's arse", etc. It's all money and greed and grabbing everything you can get your hands on, because if you're not winning all the time and acting like a prick about it then it's a "crisis".
Which is something else that's changed as well - it seemed to be just accepted between about 1960 and 1999 that big successful teams would go through dry spells or be shit for a bit. Now the idea of Arsenal or United going a measly five or six years without a trophy starts discussions of big managerial changes, sack the board, sack the players, etc. We're all far too stressed about it. Probably because we're unfulfilled in other areas of our lives.
I think, since 9/11 really - but maybe it was happening before then - the culture of suspicion has beaten down the culture of community, and the culture of neo-liberal capitalism has confirmed that there's "No such thing as society". If you're suspicious about your neighbour, or if you think the guy three doors down is a prick, then why would you then be expected to appreciate an opposing football manager or clap another team that's not yours?
The idea of having a "second team" seems pretty foreign to young people nowadays as well, because before they were even born the idea of watching your local team on a Friday and going to watch your main team on a Saturday has been slowly killed off by TV companies. If I was to admit at Edgeley Park that I was a City fan who wants Stockport County to do well I'd be lynched, and vice versa when the roles were reversed 30 years ago.
And there's no way back unless we all get the fuck off social media and go outside again. The absolute destruction of social spending in the aftermath of Britain's deindustrialisation process over the last 50 years has gutted the community out of this country. We've lost pubs, youth clubs, labour clubs, workers' rights, union strength, elderly rights, and dozens of other things. Whereas, hostility? We've got that by the fucking bucketload now.
In many ways at football, things are better. The fans are no longer penned in like cows to be crushed to death, black players can play without fear of being called a monkey by an entire stand, and if any racism happens it's shut down fast. Pretty soon we'll have gay players. Women can take their kids to stadiums and not have their arses and breasts pinched a dozen times per game. But we didn't retain what worked best in the 1970s either.
A story from my friend's dad has always stuck with me more than anything. He was in the Stretford End just before Christmas in 1977 as Brian Clough's Forest came to town and battered United up and down the pitch. It finished 4-0. He said that the entire ground was so mesmerised by the football Forest were playing that, at the end of the game, they were clapped off the pitch as the Stretford End sang "Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, Brian Clough".
Could you imagine, say, Fulham's fans applauding us off the pitch if we go there and batter them 4-0 later this season? The other week when we brought Tony Book out for his 90th birthday I was actually surprised to see the Brentford fans clapping him. When Jesus came on for Arsenal last month - a player who's won countless titles and cups with us - there were people around me booing him for fuck's sake. Something has changed since the 90s.
I remember bits and pieces from the 2000s - like Wenger's Arsenal team being clapped off the pitch at Maine Road when they were 4-0 up at half-time, Ronaldo being applauded off by the whole Old Trafford crowd in that 4-3 game, or Henry being cheered when he came over to take a corner by the North Stand. And I'm sure we all remember the #JFT96 banner the City away fans took to Anfield at the height of the title race in 2014. Bitterness has ramped up.
It's such a shame that there isn't as much goodwill between fans these days. For a million reasons and one it's not just about hoping your team wins and then taking it on the chin when you don't. I don't know if it's social media keeping us all connected and obsessed at every minute of the day, or just a gradual breakdown of community, but football feels way more stressful, it feels like there's much more at stake, more to lose than ever before.
And I think this is obvious when rows about ticket prices start. There are thousands of football fans - more of us than there are members of the FA or owners of football clubs - but we almost never come together to fight ticket prices going up or shit kick-off times. It always becomes about "empty seats" jibes above all else. The only time fans truly came together in recent years was to fight off the Super League, but that was a rare, rare event, sadly.
I think a lot of it comes from the majority of people no longer being class conscious and no longer being politically aware or active. Football has drifted further and further away from being a working class game and the attitudes of the fans have gone with it. There's no sense that we're all in it together, no sense that football crowds can be powerful examples of community and regional strength - it's just hoping one millionaire scores more than another.
And when you take that sort of heart out of the game, what goes with it is mutual appreciation and respect. if you tried praising Klopp's incredible Liverpool team on here between 2018 and 2022 you'd just have people telling you to fuck off and "stop kissing that Scouse twat's arse", etc. It's all money and greed and grabbing everything you can get your hands on, because if you're not winning all the time and acting like a prick about it then it's a "crisis".
Which is something else that's changed as well - it seemed to be just accepted between about 1960 and 1999 that big successful teams would go through dry spells or be shit for a bit. Now the idea of Arsenal or United going a measly five or six years without a trophy starts discussions of big managerial changes, sack the board, sack the players, etc. We're all far too stressed about it. Probably because we're unfulfilled in other areas of our lives.
I think, since 9/11 really - but maybe it was happening before then - the culture of suspicion has beaten down the culture of community, and the culture of neo-liberal capitalism has confirmed that there's "No such thing as society". If you're suspicious about your neighbour, or if you think the guy three doors down is a prick, then why would you then be expected to appreciate an opposing football manager or clap another team that's not yours?
The idea of having a "second team" seems pretty foreign to young people nowadays as well, because before they were even born the idea of watching your local team on a Friday and going to watch your main team on a Saturday has been slowly killed off by TV companies. If I was to admit at Edgeley Park that I was a City fan who wants Stockport County to do well I'd be lynched, and vice versa when the roles were reversed 30 years ago.
And there's no way back unless we all get the fuck off social media and go outside again. The absolute destruction of social spending in the aftermath of Britain's deindustrialisation process over the last 50 years has gutted the community out of this country. We've lost pubs, youth clubs, labour clubs, workers' rights, union strength, elderly rights, and dozens of other things. Whereas, hostility? We've got that by the fucking bucketload now.
In many ways at football, things are better. The fans are no longer penned in like cows to be crushed to death, black players can play without fear of being called a monkey by an entire stand, and if any racism happens it's shut down fast. Pretty soon we'll have gay players. Women can take their kids to stadiums and not have their arses and breasts pinched a dozen times per game. But we didn't retain what worked best in the 1970s either.