Apprentice Union?

[glen quagmire]

Totallywired's hero.

[bigimg]http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/history/img/themes/society/industry/arthur_scargill_446.jpg[/bigimg]

-- Wed May 30, 2012 6:44 pm --

It has, pal. It wasn't that long ago, there were mountains of rubbish in the streets and the miners were all striking because of an utter utter ****, who had one of the worst comb overs in history that was scargill. Look where it got the miners...

-- Wed May 30, 2012 6:37 pm --




Nor mine pal.

Nor mine.

The miners thought they were safe once too.

No they didn't! They thought that my beloved hero, would bow down to their demands. The miners believed in scargill, when they should've been concentrating on providing for their families. Look where it got them, chinned by the dibble and nottingham lads in their pits, earning lovely overtime!

 

[LittleStan]

Genuine question for our union rep guys (or former ones). If I have a complaint and I take to my rep does he/she get to decide if my employers have a case to answer or does he/she have to push it to someone else to decide?

I went to Union school back in the 80's and the clear direction back then was to always remember that if you fight the corner for someone with a 'weak' case then it will only undermine your credibility for any 'stronger' cases that may follow.

That wasn't to say that they shouldn't have Union representation, more that they should be advised appropriately and made aware of the realistic expectations of their grievance.

I would also suggest that Union policy on this will differ according to the industry, and I doubt such sound advice is adhered to by all.

That is about the size of it. With proper management a union rep should not be needed at all, if they are called then their advise, ideally, would be the same as the managers and company HR advice. (because the employee is being managed correctly)

Unfortunately there are plenty of dickhead managers about and more than enough shit employers for unions to still be required.

 

[mackenzie]

Totallywired's hero.

[bigimg]http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/history/img/themes/society/industry/arthur_scargill_446.jpg[/bigimg]

-- Wed May 30, 2012 6:44 pm --

Nor mine.

The miners thought they were safe once too.

No they didn't! They thought that my beloved hero, would bow down to their demands. The miners believed in scargill, when they should've been concentrating on providing for their families. Look where it got them, chinned by the dibble and nottingham lads in their pits, earning lovely overtime!

They WERE concentrating on providing for their families. Unfortunately they had their livelihood and communities ripped out from under them and many of them never worked again. Not from idleness but from circumstances that surrounded them.
Do you realise the barriers that the unemployed faced then? Particularly the ones with only the skills that fitted a certain industry, who didn't drive, who were locked into a probable 200 mile radius of equally devastated communities?

Sod all the rhetoric about it being 'easy' to get a job in times of recession. It isn't and the bigger picture needs to be seen.

 

[union city blue]

Genuine question for our union rep guys (or former ones). If I have a complaint and I take to my rep does he/she get to decide if my employers have a case to answer or does he/she have to push it to someone else to decide?

Most local reps should be trained to a level where they know the basics around employment law and about the employers procedures eg discipline/grievance. If they can't answer the would go to the branch secretary or similar for advice on what to do with a particular case. On cases that may require legal proceedings the case would be referred to the union's legal advisers who would advise on the legal aspects of the case and whether the case would stand a reasonable chance of success in court or tribunal.

There may be occasions when a union would not support a member pursuing a particular case if it was felt that they did not have merit or had no reasonable chance of succeeding. In most cases where a member is turned down in terms of ongoing support by their union, most unions have an internal appeal/complaints procedure where the member could appeal against the decision not to support a case.

Hope that answered your question.

 

[glen quagmire]

Well i took on a lad a couple of months ago, we have a probation period of three months. So wether this lad was in a union or not, surely i could get rid if i wasn't happy with no comebacks?

Guess what, union rep gripped him on his INDUCTION day. When he mentioned the probationary period, the union guy looked at him like a wet fart and said "i'll come back".

-- Wed May 30, 2012 6:58 pm --

Totallywired's hero.

[bigimg]http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/history/img/themes/society/industry/arthur_scargill_446.jpg[/bigimg]

-- Wed May 30, 2012 6:44 pm --

The miners thought they were safe once too.

No they didn't! They thought that my beloved hero, would bow down to their demands. The miners believed in scargill, when they should've been concentrating on providing for their families. Look where it got them, chinned by the dibble and nottingham lads in their pits, earning lovely overtime!

They WERE concentrating on providing for their families. Unfortunately they had their livelihood and communities ripped out from under them and many of them never worked again. Not from idleness but from circumstances that surrounded them.
Do you realise the barriers that the unemployed faced then? Particularly the ones with only the skills that fitted a certain industry, who didn't drive, who were locked into a probable 200 mile radius of equally devastated communities?

Sod all the rhetoric about it being 'easy' to get a job in times of recession. It isn't and the bigger picture needs to be seen.

The last thing i would do in a recession, if i didn't drive or had no transferable skills, is strike. Sorry mackenzie, i 'like' you, so will not be drawn into handbags with YOU over this subject. Much rather have a pint at a get together. I'd like to agree, that we both know where we come from on this...

 

[mackenzie]

Well i took on a lad a couple of months ago, we have a probation period of three months. So wether this lad was in a union or not, surely i could get rid if i wasn't happy with no comebacks?

Guess what, union rep gripped him on his INDUCTION day. When he mentioned the probationary period, the union guy looked at him like a wet fart and said "i'll come back".

And what if you were the 'other' type of employer? The one who doesn't care if the lad did ok or not but just fired him at the end of the probationary period because he just wanted the funding.

As for the Union Rep, maybe he just saw him as a possible commodity for the employer, an employee who wasn't going to be around in the long term, for the reasons I give above.

 

[SWP's back]

I was thinking the same glen, the work for what you earn ethos seems to have disappeared up its own arse in this country

Not in my household mate, hence the nice holiday next month.

Well, whoop de do.

Damn right it is here.

 

[hilts]

moderate unions are fine and do a good job, lets not kid ourselves there is plenty of bastard bosses out there, some unions should however accept that situations change and it is sometimes inevitable that job roles and benefits will have to follow suit

 

[LittleStan]

I was thinking the same glen, the work for what you earn ethos seems to have disappeared up its own arse in this country

Not in my household mate, hence the nice holiday next month.

can either of you give me an example of a paid employee actually getting paid what they earn?

anybody? Its a simple question in response to a simple statement. Surely there must be a simple answer?

 

[mackenzie]

Well i took on a lad a couple of months ago, we have a probation period of three months. So wether this lad was in a union or not, surely i could get rid if i wasn't happy with no comebacks?

Guess what, union rep gripped him on his INDUCTION day. When he mentioned the probationary period, the union guy looked at him like a wet fart and said "i'll come back".

-- Wed May 30, 2012 6:58 pm --

Totallywired's hero.

[bigimg]http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/history/img/themes/society/industry/arthur_scargill_446.jpg[/bigimg]

-- Wed May 30, 2012 6:44 pm --



No they didn't! They thought that my beloved hero, would bow down to their demands. The miners believed in scargill, when they should've been concentrating on providing for their families. Look where it got them, chinned by the dibble and nottingham lads in their pits, earning lovely overtime!

They WERE concentrating on providing for their families. Unfortunately they had their livelihood and communities ripped out from under them and many of them never worked again. Not from idleness but from circumstances that surrounded them.
Do you realise the barriers that the unemployed faced then? Particularly the ones with only the skills that fitted a certain industry, who didn't drive, who were locked into a probable 200 mile radius of equally devastated communities?

Sod all the rhetoric about it being 'easy' to get a job in times of recession. It isn't and the bigger picture needs to be seen.

The last thing i would do in a recession, if i didn't drive or had no transferable skills, is strike. Sorry mackenzie, i 'like' you, so will not be drawn into handbags with YOU over this subject. Much rather have a pint at a get together. I'd like to agree, that we both know where we come from on this...

It was a different world then Glen. The idea of possible mobility in the future didn't even enter into their heads. That's not good with hindsight I agree, but let's not castigate them for doing what they did at the time. It should be taken in the context of that particular time in our social history.

And I ain't rowing. I'd have a pint with you anytime ;-)