Are we dining at the top table or not?

Danamy said:
Blue2112 said:
BobKowalski said:
I doubt if selling Negrado signals a move to playing one striker. Pellers stated he needed 4 strikers and we played with two in pre season and in all three matches to date. To suddenly rip this up on transfer deadline day would be absurd. It's the sort of decision you make 2 months ago, shape your squad according and practise it in pre season.

The reason why we are trying to rationalise this sale after the event is because it is contrary to how we have done our recent business and we are endeavouring to make sense of it. My own view is that we allowed ourselves to be distracted by the possibility of getting Falcao and set in motion a deal for Negrado we deemed prudent to complete despite the Falcao deal going tits. Financially it is a good deal but one that would have been better made a month ago.

I do agree and also think there was a point in the last 48 hours where Falcao coming here was a real possibility and this kick started us into allowing Negredo to talk to Valencia. Something changed with the Falcao deal and I think we looked at Negredo's injury situation and thought it was one we could handle until the next window at least and the deal was too good to walk away from.

I don't see the two connected to be honest

As i said in the transfer forum i still don't believe we were ever in for Falcao, he may have been offered to us with all the noise was coming from Mendes but with them weekly prices you can see why City told him to do one.

The Negredo deal was always going to happen with him wanting the move and the figures being right for both club and player, if it's the right move only time will tell.

Spot on, City where never on the lookout for Falcao, he was put up to us by his Agent and we would have been foolish to not even listen to terms requested, as it is there is no way on this earth that we would do the deal that Utd have with him and I suspect same could come out regarding Arsenal.
 
wagonman said:
Jeeeeeez...

Imagine being adrift at sea for weeks and eventually landing on an island in Paradise to find the only other person there is GaudinoMotors!

I might be inclined to turn around and head back out to sea.

If the only thing happening at City was the first team squad maybe we might have already arrived at our destination but can't you see all the other, massive changes taking place?

There is a long, long term plan in place.

Stoke score a freak breakaway goal and a crocked, overpriced, aging striker chooses to stick his snout in the Scum's pigs swill rather than join the Enlightened One at the Etihad and you sink into a depression!

Take deep breathes... look around at all the roses... and smell that freshly ground coffee.

We are City.

We are the Champions... and will be again.

JJ


Hope you've got sunscreen and malaria tablets :-)
 
Questy said:
Danamy said:
Blue2112 said:
I do agree and also think there was a point in the last 48 hours where Falcao coming here was a real possibility and this kick started us into allowing Negredo to talk to Valencia. Something changed with the Falcao deal and I think we looked at Negredo's injury situation and thought it was one we could handle until the next window at least and the deal was too good to walk away from.

I don't see the two connected to be honest

As i said in the transfer forum i still don't believe we were ever in for Falcao, he may have been offered to us with all the noise was coming from Mendes but with them weekly prices you can see why City told him to do one.

The Negredo deal was always going to happen with him wanting the move and the figures being right for both club and player, if it's the right move only time will tell.

Spot on, City where never on the lookout for Falcao, he was put up to us by his Agent and we would have been foolish to not even listen to terms requested, as it is there is no way on this earth that we would do the deal that Utd have with him and I suspect same could come out regarding Arsenal.

The only difference being the Rags were desperate and took the bait
 
Mister Appointment said:
Lancet Fluke said:
Has there been anything happening on the pitch that has led you to believe that he is seeking a change from two up front? I'm not really interested in whether you would play one up front because Yaya leaves us a bit exposed (FWIW I agree with you) because that is just your opinion and we are discussing whether Pellegrini is looking to change the system which is what you suggested. I'd be amazed if Pellegrini is happy for Txiki to have let Negredo go and not replaced him. Something else that concerns me about yesterday that seems to have gone under the radar is that it looked to me like we were actively trying to get rid of Nastasic. Now Kompany doesn't have the greatest unjury record and it would have left us with just 3 senior centre backs if he'd gone. That for me would have been even worse than what happened with the strikers. Thank goodness Nastasic didn't want to go. But why were we trying to leave ourselves with 3 centre backs and 3 strikers when we play 2 of each in more or less every game?

As it stands the three forwards we have are fit. Even if we lose one, we can still play two up top. We have also had Silva and Yaya play as a forward or just off the forward when other forwards have been fit so it's clearly an option which on occasion Pellegrini has chosen to use. On top of that many of us really genuinely rate Kelechi very highly and if the plan is to have him replace Negredo then some of us think that is an even better situation than having Negredo.

With regards Nastasic. Forget him. His City career is over and the manager doesn't want him. Again your flapping is predicated on injuries. Well Kompany spent plenty of time sidelined last season and we won the title. This season we have added Mangala who is presumably somewhat of an upgrade on Lescott. We also have Fernando who can play at centre half if needs be. We also have Boyata, who despite being a figure of fun on Bluemoon has been given a new contract and kept in the first team squad whilst Denayer has been sent to Celtic. These calls have all been made by Pellegrini and Txiki, so they deserve to have their judgment trusted when last summer's dealings were such a huge success.

Overall it is a shame that we are basically back to where we were 12 months ago with the same people moaning like fuck about how Txiki, Ferran, etc don't know what they're doing. Constructive criticism I can deal with. But just blindly saying we're fucked and the club are stupid when you have zero clue what Pellegrini's wishes were, what Txiki's wishes were, and what Negredo's wishes were, is ignorant childish nonsense. No offence btw, I'm not levelling that specifically at you but more at the general tone of a lot of the posts i've read since last night. The forum's really been true to it's unofficial moniker of Bluemoan.


That's fine, if Nastasic's City career is over then we should have got him out earlier in the summer and got in a replacement imo. If we couldn't do that then we hang on to him and at least we have back up with some Prem experience. What we shouldn't have been doing is trying to get rid at the last minute with no chance to get in a replacement (recurring theme). Yes we won the league last year even though Kompany had injuries but my point is that we had 4 senior centre backs last season, that's how we coped with the injuries at the back. Yet last night we were close to being left with 3. Yes my "flapping" is predicated on us getting injuries because injuries are a reality that happen to all clubs. I'm not interested in Boyata, if we end up using him as centre back in the Prem much this season then we won't win it, simple as that. If you think I'm just moaning and flapping then that's fine, personally I think it is constructive criticism to question being left with 3 strikers when we play 2 up front and attempts to leave us with 3 senior centre halves when we always play 2 in a match. As for Negredo's wishes, well I was quite happy for us to let him go, but we should have made it clear that to some extent it had to be on our terms ie done early enough to get in a replacement or tough shit.
 
I am a big admirer of Txiki and Ferran – shit, I even like Marwood – but I do not consider them infallible and only time will tell whether they have erred in this instance.

What I do know is that we entered last weekend with what I considered to be the league’s best set of strikers and a few short days later we may not even have the second best set of strikers. That is not my idea of squad improvement; it is my idea of taking a risk, albeit that it may only be a short-term risk.
The risk is that we have injury problems with our strikers before we get to January, which is not an inconsequential risk given the track records of both Aguero and Jovetic. City also face the risk that they will not be able to bag a suitable replacement in January.

On the other hand, we know that Negredo was going to have limited availability prior to the opening of the next transfer window. In the meantime, City may be able to draft Iheanacho, who looks to be a precocious talent, into the squad. However, nothing is guaranteed in that regard.

Given how much we are getting for Negredo, it could ultimately look like a smart piece of business but it seemed to be an open secret that he was unsettled in England and therefore the club should have planned for this eventuality. Whether Falcao was ever part of such planning seems unclear but, as a fan, the idea of strengthening the squad by upgrading to him from The Beast was floated before us only to be well and truly ripped away by him pitching up at the Rags and that leaves a sour taste for now. That said, if the numbers being quoted are right, I can see why City would have baulked at the deal but it still doesn’t sweeten matters. What does matter is that we do not look back and rue this when prize-giving time comes around again.
 
Lancet Fluke said:
Mister Appointment said:
Lancet Fluke said:
Has there been anything happening on the pitch that has led you to believe that he is seeking a change from two up front? I'm not really interested in whether you would play one up front because Yaya leaves us a bit exposed (FWIW I agree with you) because that is just your opinion and we are discussing whether Pellegrini is looking to change the system which is what you suggested. I'd be amazed if Pellegrini is happy for Txiki to have let Negredo go and not replaced him. Something else that concerns me about yesterday that seems to have gone under the radar is that it looked to me like we were actively trying to get rid of Nastasic. Now Kompany doesn't have the greatest unjury record and it would have left us with just 3 senior centre backs if he'd gone. That for me would have been even worse than what happened with the strikers. Thank goodness Nastasic didn't want to go. But why were we trying to leave ourselves with 3 centre backs and 3 strikers when we play 2 of each in more or less every game?

As it stands the three forwards we have are fit. Even if we lose one, we can still play two up top. We have also had Silva and Yaya play as a forward or just off the forward when other forwards have been fit so it's clearly an option which on occasion Pellegrini has chosen to use. On top of that many of us really genuinely rate Kelechi very highly and if the plan is to have him replace Negredo then some of us think that is an even better situation than having Negredo.

With regards Nastasic. Forget him. His City career is over and the manager doesn't want him. Again your flapping is predicated on injuries. Well Kompany spent plenty of time sidelined last season and we won the title. This season we have added Mangala who is presumably somewhat of an upgrade on Lescott. We also have Fernando who can play at centre half if needs be. We also have Boyata, who despite being a figure of fun on Bluemoon has been given a new contract and kept in the first team squad whilst Denayer has been sent to Celtic. These calls have all been made by Pellegrini and Txiki, so they deserve to have their judgment trusted when last summer's dealings were such a huge success.

Overall it is a shame that we are basically back to where we were 12 months ago with the same people moaning like fuck about how Txiki, Ferran, etc don't know what they're doing. Constructive criticism I can deal with. But just blindly saying we're fucked and the club are stupid when you have zero clue what Pellegrini's wishes were, what Txiki's wishes were, and what Negredo's wishes were, is ignorant childish nonsense. No offence btw, I'm not levelling that specifically at you but more at the general tone of a lot of the posts i've read since last night. The forum's really been true to it's unofficial moniker of Bluemoan.


That's fine, if Nastasic's City career is over then we should have got him out earlier in the summer and got in a replacement imo. If we couldn't do that then we hang on to him and at least we have back up with some Prem experience. What we shouldn't have been doing is trying to get rid at the last minute with no chance to get in a replacement (recurring theme). Yes we won the league last year even though Kompany had injuries but my point is that we had 4 senior centre backs last season, that's how we coped with the injuries at the back. Yet last night we were close to being left with 3. Yes my "flapping" is predicated on us getting injuries because injuries are a reality that happen to all clubs. I'm not interested in Boyata, if we end up using him as centre back in the Prem much this season then we won't win it, simple as that. If you think I'm just moaning and flapping then that's fine, personally I think it is constructive criticism to question being left with 3 strikers when we play 2 up front and attempts to leave us with 3 senior centre halves when we always play 2 in a match. As for Negredo's wishes, well I was quite happy for us to let him go, but we should have made it clear that to some extent it had to be on our terms ie done early enough to get in a replacement or tough shit.

we couldn't replace Nastasic unless we brought in a mercenary happy to sit out CL or an English player.

we couldn't replace Negredo unless we brought in a mercenary happy to sit out CL or an English player.

Neither of which are suitable options this summer.

All we have to do this season is make Top 3. Make Top 3 and we get the BT CL money, and deprive one of the old guard from having it, they know this and are desperate to climb in the trap door at anyone's expense. I reckon we will have comfortably at least £100m to spend next summer, if not more, and will 2 or 3 marquee players.

We will also have room, when our restrictions are lifted, to buy 1 foreign player without needing to replace, meaning that we can go all out for a star with no concerns. I reckon we will buy a HG star like Barkley, and then we can sit back and watch who's suffering. Whoever missed out on 4th will have a hard time keeping stars, as Real and Barca will swoop for a Ramsey, Sterling etc. and the likes of Sanchez wouldn't want to hang around, thus opening the market for us, either to then buy them up or pick off the players Real and Barca want to offload, which they would have to do.

Perform on the pitch this season and we set ourselves up and firmly shut the trapdoor on the old guard trying to throw us out, because we will then have too much money, and no restrictions, to hinder us, and we will become part of the elite and start being able to sign marquee players as and when we want, and the squad has already been set up to allow this. We are also going to get to the stage where we've got through the academy age groups who have suffered because of the pace of change, and we can already see that even a few of those are being sold on or loaned out to good clubs for a nice fee, but in the next couple of years we'll start to see a few genuine talents emerging and within 5 imo genuinely 2 or 3 make a very game attempt at breaking in as a first team regular.

I think we're setting up very sensibly, we just have to get the players we have to avoid another Stoke at home, the only way we can fuck this up is on the pitch, top 3 and we're sorted.
 
Lancet Fluke said:
That's fine, if Nastasic's City career is over then we should have got him out earlier in the summer and got in a replacement imo. If we couldn't do that then we hang on to him and at least we have back up with some Prem experience. What we shouldn't have been doing is trying to get rid at the last minute with no chance to get in a replacement (recurring theme).

We already have a replacement. Boyata. Our H/G quota has dictated this in part as well. Thus it's utterly irrelevant when in the summer he goes. Same as with Negredo (recurring theme).

Yes we won the league last year even though Kompany had injuries but my point is that we had 4 senior centre backs last season, that's how we coped with the injuries at the back. Yet last night we were close to being left with 3.

Was there ever a time where both MdM and Vinny were both unavailable? I don't believe there was so it was a straight choice between Lescott and Nastasic. Now it's a straight choice between Boyata and Mangala, if Mangala doesn't establish himself as first choice which I believe he will.

Again this just seems to be you thinking you know more than the highly paid technical staff we have who actually train with the players week in and week out and know who they rate, who they don't rate, what eventualities are covered for, and who's covering them.

Yes my "flapping" is predicated on us getting injuries because injuries are a reality that happen to all clubs. I'm not interested in Boyata, if we end up using him as centre back in the Prem much this season then we won't win it, simple as that. If you think I'm just moaning and flapping then that's fine, personally I think it is constructive criticism to question being left with 3 strikers when we play 2 up front and attempts to leave us with 3 senior centre halves when we always play 2 in a match. As for Negredo's wishes, well I was quite happy for us to let him go, but we should have made it clear that to some extent it had to be on our terms ie done early enough to get in a replacement or tough shit.

Yes, I think you're flapping. No i don't think you're being particularly constructive, especially when you unilaterally dismiss Boyata and say if we has to play in the PL we won't win it. When you are basically questioning the sense of the people paid to make huge decisions and long term decisions, based on your short term insecurity about injuries. As you say injuries occur at all clubs and if we're short of quality, then so are Chelsea. What happens if Terry or Cahill get injured? Ivanovic better than Mangala? Who comes behind him? What about Liverpool? What are their centre half options? Better than ours?

Get some perspective and man up.
 
SWP's back said:
karen7 said:
I'm with you alex but you know who will be along in a minute to tell us to trust txiki
Someone with sense?

The usual suspects who thinks he walks on water and never makes mistakes,of course he has and will,i believe this is one,time will tell,until then i don't need to be insulted by you
 

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