Are we missing Barry this much....?

dctid said:
greasedupdeafguy said:
dctid said:
Barry would also struggle in a two man midfield

We need to get back to what we were doing last season
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He was in a two man midfield for most of last season.
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No he was not we played a 4 3 2 1 but when we lost the ball we went effectively to a 5 man midfield

We are now playing two out and out strikers which leave us short in midfield hence opposing teams are finding more room and are able to get at our defence easier and hence we are shipping more goals

Watch the game yesterday there were many many times when Aguero and Edin and Silva were just jogging back when Le Arse was in possession which meant we were undermanned in midfield

Lsst season we would never ever have committed so many players forward so freuqently

If Mancini wants to play 2 up front one of the strikers MUST drop back into midfield - many many occasions this season it has not happened.
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Nonsense, the shape we started in every league game this season bar Liverpool is the same one we started with last season.

We played two up top the whole of last season in the league, two of Aguero, Dzeko, Tevez and Balotelli started in every league game. They are all forwards, sometimes they drop and show feet but they're still forwards.

The midfield 4 for the overwhelming majority of last season was Barry, Yaya, Nasri and Silva, with the latter two defending the flanks and drifting inside in to space when we had the ball.

Barry and Yaya started the vast majority of league games as the central midfield two. We often changed it after an hour and brought De Jong on to play alongside Barry so we could push Yaya further forward, but off the top of my head I can't think of a single league game where we started with 3 in the middle.
 
We do miss Barry but we are also missing an in form Silva and think he just needs a break , perhaps we should treat him as injured and give him a 2 week break , when hopefully he would come back refreshed and with the confidence of having Barry back in support.
 
Shaelumstash said:
dctid said:
greasedupdeafguy said:
He was in a two man midfield for most of last season.
Click to expand...

No he was not we played a 4 3 2 1 but when we lost the ball we went effectively to a 5 man midfield

We are now playing two out and out strikers which leave us short in midfield hence opposing teams are finding more room and are able to get at our defence easier and hence we are shipping more goals

Watch the game yesterday there were many many times when Aguero and Edin and Silva were just jogging back when Le Arse was in possession which meant we were undermanned in midfield

Lsst season we would never ever have committed so many players forward so freuqently

If Mancini wants to play 2 up front one of the strikers MUST drop back into midfield - many many occasions this season it has not happened.
Click to expand...

Nonsense, the shape we started in every league game this season bar Liverpool is the same one we started with last season.

We played two up top the whole of last season in the league, two of Aguero, Dzeko, Tevez and Balotelli started in every league game. They are all forwards, sometimes they drop and show feet but they're still forwards.

The midfield 4 for the overwhelming majority of last season was Barry, Yaya, Nasri and Silva, with the latter two defending the flanks and drifting inside in to space when we had the ball.

Barry and Yaya started the vast majority of league games as the central midfield two. We often changed it after an hour and brought De Jong on to play alongside Barry so we could push Yaya further forward, but off the top of my head I can't think of a single league game where we started with 3 in the middle.
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For the record, with one striker dropping deep, 4231 is a fairly accurate description of our normal shape, but mot 4321, it was usually Barry and Yaya as the central 2, and we really miss Barry's intelligence so far this season
 
Let's not think there is one thing causing us problems this year. We are not playing well at all as a team and in most cases individually as well.

When top players make mistakes ( defensively) or cant make a pass ( so many are not finding the target) or chances are being missed.

It will start to come together soon and hopefully in the next league match.
 
Nelly's Left Foot said:
Let's not think there is one thing causing us problems this year. We are not playing well at all as a team and in most cases individually as well.

When top players make mistakes ( defensively) or cant make a pass ( so many are not finding the target) or chances are being missed.

It will start to come together soon and hopefully in the next league match.
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We're only just a little bit short in my opinion. if Yaya Toure and Silva had been a little but more careful and measured with their final ball, and Aguero had a couple more games in his legs we'd have been looking at a comfortable win against Arsenal

We deserved what we got against Arsenal.

The encouraging thing is that I haven't yet seen a team in this League which is going to run away with it. They are all going to slip up at some point
 
dancity19 said:
Last season Barry was awesome, and I think that is being highlighted with our lack of dominance in midfield so far this season. I think also we missed De Jong yesterday, but he's gone so no point in discussing that.

Barry obviously has a huge impact on both the defence and the attack in terms of the position he plays, and the role he performs. Hopefully Garcia can step up to it; impressed against Stoke, but less so yesterday, however as others have said you can't judge him yet. BUT, when you are chasing the title, there is little time for adaption in key positions as you don't want to play catch up all season, so I hope he adapts to the pace asap. I hope missing out on the top targets, and buying the 2nd or 3rd choices (I really like Garcia, a lot, but lets be honest) won't come back to bite us.

Also, this isn't a flapping thread, as only 5 games have gone, but to drop points we weren't dropping last season shouldn't be happening. We have to look to gain points we weren't last season. Fulham away is important; if we win there that will be 2 points on last season gained. Likewise I think we have the capacity to take 6pts off Sunderland (5 pts gained) and 6 off WBA (2 points gained.

Taking another 6 of Spurs and United won't be easy though. It's also a little annoying when you see United and Arsenal getting 3 points at lpool when we only got 1, but that's football, and that always happens.

Who knows, we have got off to a sloppy start, before yesterday we had dropped more points in our first 4 games, than we did in the first 14 of last season. Likewise, we haven't played well yet. At least we haven't lost.....we could get off to a sloppy start but end up going the season unbeaten, so of course its faaaar too early to get worried, but we need to improve and fast, we are 4 points behind Chelsea, and I don't think we ever dropped outside the top 2 last season did we?

So, it's too early to worry, but you don't want to slip further behind, or play catch up all season, so i think Fulham is an important game for us. It's not a great ground for us, but we did win 4-1 there 2 seasons ago, so I hope it can be the catalyst to the season, and get a nice away win.
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Agreed Mancini needs to go back to basics stop tinkering and bring back Barry and Milner into the fold. At 1 nil up yesterday with those 2 in the engine we would have seen out a 1 nil win. I am not going criticsise Garcia or Rodwell I think both are quality players but they are still bedding in.
 
de niro said:
whilst barry is at our club he should start every game we want to win.
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I agree mate, he's so important to us, and you really notice when he's not there. We don't keep the ball as well, and his passing is so intelligent. Garcia looks decent, but it's the same problem as De Jong, he always looks square, whereas Barry's first instinct is to look for a forward pass.
 
Barry is a solid midfielder and fits very well into the style of football Mancini wants to play. De Jong might be slightly better overall, but Barry's superior speed of passing and greater range make him a better fit. You do miss him, but it's Gareth Barry not Pele.

Barry would help things, but you at the top scale of the Premiership you are carried by your world class players. Silva, Aguero(injury mainly) and Kompany have been off form. Kompany had a very good game yesterday and if the other two pick up form then that is the key to getting you back to your best rather than Barry.
 
supercrystal7 said:
Barry is a solid midfielder and fits very well into the style of football Mancini wants to play. De Jong might be slightly better overall, but Barry's superior speed of passing and greater range make him a better fit. You do miss him, but it's Gareth Barry not Pele.

Barry would help things, but you at the top scale of the Premiership you are carried by your world class players. Silva, Aguero(injury mainly) and Kompany have been off form. Kompany had a very good game yesterday and if the other two pick up form then that is the key to getting you back to your best rather than Barry.
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The players you mention are all key players too, although we have so much class up front we can cope without Aguero for a spell if we have to. We have no one else on Kompany's level when he's out, and there's no one in Europe who can replace Yaya, let alone in our squad.

On paper Barry is not as big a loss as those other players, but in reality the chemistry and balance of the team is never the same when he's not there. He's not a Match of the Day player, so casual fans and non City fans don't appreciate how important he is to us, but if you watch every game you realise how important he is, and that we don't have anyone else who offers the quality of his pass selection
 
Barry is a small part of it but nowhere near as much of a factor as some are making out.

Everyone is playing at a level below our best, that is the reason we're not firing yet.
 
Barry was an integral part of our success last term but remember he can be found wanting sometimes especially with speed and defensively around our penalty area.

As regards the midfield set up you must remember that for a large chunk of last season Mancini relegated De Jong to the bench.Therefore the midfield defensively relied on Yaya and Barry.
This season we now have Garcia, who has yet to pick up the pace of the EPL, sitting just in front of the back 4 with defensive holes all around him when the opposition attack.Yaya seems to have been given more of a free roll and Silva is still not at the races.

In a nutshell yes we are missing Barry or someone who can play a similar roll as the link between defense and attack.
 
the thing he does best is take positions that block passing options into opponents forwards, he's brilliant at it - thats why so many teams generally can only pass sideways when he's playing

noticeable how much easier it is to play the ball into forwards against us this season
 
I agree Barry was crucial to our success last season and he has been missed but he had an absolute shocker tonight, which we couldn't afford with two kids alongside him in centre-midfield.
 
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