Arsenal post match thread

[super_city_si]

Does anyone know who our defensive coach is please?

If we don't have one then why the f**k not !

Cheers

Stevie Wonder

 

[LittleEgg]

Nope, totally disagree. Go watch Stoke or Liverpool if you want men against boys. This was a far closer match, in fact a fairly standard match between 2 good teams, in where a couple of moments decided it. 60 seconds from where we should be leading we're losing, then 60 seconds before half time we make a mistake and the games gone & then they hung on at the end to get the points. Yes we weren't great but had we won our last few and had we been top of the table I'm going to guess less would have been upset with the performance, more the result.

Arsenal didn't execute their plan well, unless their plan was score a wonder goal & hope Mangala/Delph make a mistake? I get what you're saying that they obviously had a plan compared to us (i.e. mark Silva and get Ozil involved behind Toure on the break) whereas we just ran around hoping to outplay them - which is piss poor from our management - but by no means did their plan end up with them battering us as so many others have done this season, if they had executed well then I can assure you we wouldn't be sitting here saying they could have 3-4 goals, we'd be saying 8 or 9.

Agree we need to refresh, but not now, and certainly not panic buy in January. Do you really want another Bony, because I assure you we're not getting players of the quality we are aiming for in January. For me it's lets ensure we get top 4, maybe nick a trophy in League Cup if we're lucky, then get a manager in & get Denayer back, CM in, LB/RB in and start proper next season.

1, It wasn't a close game, it seemed this way only because they dropped deep for the last 15 minutes after yaya converted a very unlikely chance. You keep talking about "we should have been leading", but the DeBruyne chance wasn't anything like clear cut. The angle was very tight, and the pass wasn't on either. So to keep suggesting you should have been leading by the time they grabbed their goal is very generous.

2, They didn't shut up shop after their first goal which i concede was a punt(like yaya's), they kept coming forward, and scored again. Only when they got the 2nd did they truly shut up shop, as anyone would against another top 4 side....so yes they DID execute their plan, maybe not well gievn they missed so many chances to score on the break, but it got the job done.

3, I have, in every single post mentioned that arsenal were average, yet you keep talking as if this has gone over your head. The point is city were far worse over 90 mins and had no plan as always, aside from playing delph on the left which resulted in that infamous pass which ono posted a picture of, and a sterling sub at half time.

4, You keep associating a battering with men vs boys, yet i can tell you dozens of games in recent years where its been men vs boys without the battering to reflect this fact.

5, re "certainly not now and certainly not panic buy in january". No i wouldn't want another bony, but do YOU want an UCL place? Its simply so far off the pace at present that you cannot just sit there and assume you will safely qualify without measures being taken. I can guarantee you that abromovic is currently wishing he'd given jose the boot earlier now, as their top 4 place is pretty much done and dusted. Plus, you either need to bring in a defender or call Denayer back from loan, and really you need a striker. I'd say CM too but that is a difficult area to cover in january, given its arguably the area where the most money is needed to be spent.

6, A decent clear cut chance wouldn't have been created last night if the game went on for 200mins...

 

[LittleEgg]

Last night was one of the most frustrating games I've watched. Just before I carry on rambling on here, just take a second to remember this interview in August: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33857446 This was when our players tricked us into thinking they actually wanted to win the league!

So we go from August, where our players are right up to prove our critics wrong and to go on to win the league, to where we are now.

Yesterday, I was incredibly confident looking at our line up. A team with Hart, Kolarov, Toure, KDB, Aguero should have bags full of experience for these big games. We've been here before and taken points off Arsenal so it shouldn't be too difficult to not get beat.

We started the game off very slowly, Arsenal had a good 5 minutes of possession and territory and instantly you got an impression as to who was and who wasn't up for the game. We eventually forged out a couple of half chances and long range shots, but nothing to really panic Cech. Then, almost like clockwork, we concede a goal mid way through the first half. Fernandinho couldn't be bothered to make a 5 yard sprint, KDB suddenly becomes the slowest human being on planet earth when we're out of possession and Toure was being Toure, off somewhere else on the pitch with his finger up his backside. Ottamendi and Sagna get dragged around like a couple of puppets as a result and Walcott, with all the time in the world curls an unstoppable shot into the top corner. Something he seems to do against us quite often now.

So it's 1-0, we continue attempting to press them. Kolarov gives the ball away 6 times in the next 15 mins, usually by hoofing the ball up towards Aguero who's being marked by 1.98m tall Per Mertesacker, I wonder who was going to win that one. 1 minute of added time comes on the board and we have a free kick in their half. Any half decent player here thinks 'well we've struggled to break them down all game, we've got a chance now, let's get the ball into the box and try our luck before half time', but no, we rush to take a 1 yard free kick, get tracked down quickly, play a hospital pass across the pitch and stand around blaming each other when arguably the quickest team counter us. I still can't fathom what Mangala was thinking, that pass wasn't even Sunday League standard, how he's getting in the team ahead of Demichelis is beyond me. I think someone must have told him he's actually good at football once, surely not, but it does look that way. So from having 1 minute to go, with an attacking free-kick we finish the half 2-0. Great.

I can only imagine Manuel's half time team talk was possibly the most uninspiring conversation that's taken place in history. Similar to the game away to Stoke, we came out in the second half looking less interested than the first. He replaces Delph, the only player who looked interested, with Sterling.

We showed a great winning mentality when Aguero goes down on the pitch, the referee allows play to go on despite a head injury. Once up he's walked off to the sideline. Pellegrini says, 'well it's the 60th minute and I'm going to put Bony on in two minutes', so Aguero goes and takes his place on the bench and we're left with 10 men. Let's be honest here, if that's Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo, Messi, Suarez, Gerrard etc they are all telling Pellegrini to fuck off and get Bony warmed up before you take me off - or at least go back onto the pitch and feign an injury for 2 mins which gives us time to get Bony ready - surely I can't be the only person who's infuriated by this every time we do it? This followed Ottamendi earning the poorest yellow card we'll see all season.

Eventually, after two clear goal scoring chances for Arsenal (again created by our lack of effort/desire and sheer complacency at the back) we break through. Navas burns Mertesacker and we have our best chance to work the keeper. He enters the box, the ball lines up nicely for a right footed strike, low and hard past the keeper surely? He doesn't even try. He attempted to pass the ball to Bony who was waddling 10 yards behind him rather than shoot against Cech who'm he was one on one with. I don't think anyone would complain at Navas if he shot and Cech saved it, but not trying is unforgivable. Is this the instruction from Pellegrini or does he have such little confidence in his own ability? Probably the latter.

So we go into the last 10 minutes, and suddenly we start showing the intensity a team like Bayern or Barca show for 90 mins week in week out. Toure nearly fools everyone present into thinking he's had a decent game by cracking an absolute screamer into the back of the net and suddenly Arsenal are gone. But, we've left it too little to late. I almost believe Pellegrini told them 'don't try until the last 10 minutes, they'll shit themselves'. We had a few more half chances until we run ran out of steam on the 90th minute.

So where does that leave us? We're not just 6 points off the top. We've lost 5 games, dropped points in our last 5 away games, our home performances have been atrocious yet Pellegrini is still coming out, as calm as anything. It's almost as if he doesn't give a shit, maybe he's off in the summer, maybe he knows who his replacement will be, perhaps the players do too. Maybe they get a buzz out of seeing how little they can do, whilst still picking up £200,000 per week. I want passion, I want 11 Delphs in my team who will run through brick walls for the entire game. I don't want players who save themselves for the last 10 minutes and offer nothing for the 80 prior to that. I wan't a manager who can change things, throw players in and switch formations mid way through the game to prevent their best players from ripping ours apart. I know a happy clapper will probably say, get a bit of perspective but regardless, from a fans perspective, it's just not good enough.

This is the best chance we will EVER have of winning the league and we're going to piss it away because Pellegrini can't motivate our squad anymore.

Good post agreed totally, delphs problem was he should never have started at LM. Yaya has to be given the boot onto the bench, and lets see what delph and dino can do together with a few games behind them. Its suits all parties too as yaya only has 15 minutes of full steam in him clearly.

 

[ninjamonkey]

Read a few match reports that suggested we were the better side for most of the game, now admittedly my memory of last night is a little hazy seeing as i didn't get home until 5am but i thought we were our usual predictable crap selves. The Yaya goal came out of nothing and i can only remember the KDB chance first half. Bar that we never looked like even threatening to score until the last few minutes. Arsenal were well below par last night with some key players out themselves before we start to use injuries as an excuse yet they still managed to win pretty comfortably.

We kept hearing on here before the game how we'd see the City of last season after a weeks rest, we didn't, instead we saw the same old shite we've seen for the past 3 months. This is not going to change for the rest of the season whilst Pellegrini is in charge, we've lost 5 games before christmas and that's 5 defeats from the last 12 league games. That isn't even top 4 standards. My fear is, with the whole Pep situation we're basically sacrificing this season just to bring him in, and have already written it off, deciding that Pellegrini will see out the year and move aside for Guardiola. I don't see why we should, the team is strong enough to win the league this year without Pep. Bring in an interim manager right now before not only the title hopes fade away but also the top 4. we're closer to 7th placed Watford than we are to the top of the league. And the worrying thing is, we're not in a slump of form, it's beyond that, we're stuck in a rut.

 

[gomer27]

I'm not but money has absolutely fucjK all to do with supporting your team. The money card is what the red press play every fecking time. If in reality players play bad then they deserve criticism but to use the gazillions card is simply is disrespectful to the club and City. In general tonight the team played well but conceded a spectacular goal and a soft goal, ten years ago we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Let the good times continue and know that we've been blessed and are in the upper etchanlons of world football, not thee lower tiers of English football and certainly not turn into arrogant, rag, assholes because we think we're better than anyone else.

i agree with you that money doesnt mean shit when it comes to supporting your team....but being in the upper echelons of world football we should be better then we have been

 

[spud100]

Having a chance of winning the league is totally and utterly dependent on VK coming back and Kun staying fit. Without the first we are a shambles at the back and I can only see that continuing. Without the latter we carry little threat with the lazy Bony up front. If VK isn't back soon we will get too far behind as I cant see us winning many away games currently. If we don't change the manager and have the same set of players then what is going to change?

Totally agree. At the minute Bony is are no1 striker and he can't cut the mustard and he is a lazy bastard. Otamendi may make the grade but not with Mangala who ironically enough played with at Porto but Liga Nos is not the Premier League. Like you said our only hope is getting our injury prone best players back and them playing 20+ games at full tilt. Personally I think MP is focussing on the Champions league as this is his swan song in the tournament , that's only my opinion of course. But as a lifelong blue pessimism is part of my make-up!!! Some of Pellegrini's decisions lately have been baffling though like having our most energetic midfielder (Delph) looking after Bellerin whilst our laziest (Yaya) looks after the leagues most in-form creative midfielder?? Need big Vin back quick and Kun ripping defences apart too and staying fit too!!!!!

 

[Chi-town blues]

The problem is our offensive players lack of closing down the defender and letting them have a free pass to middle of our half. Cruise control style!!

 

[mosssideblue]

Read a few match reports that suggested we were the better side for most of the game, now admittedly my memory of last night is a little hazy seeing as i didn't get home until 5am but i thought we were our usual predictable crap selves. The Yaya goal came out of nothing and i can only remember the KDB chance first half. Bar that we never looked like even threatening to score until the last few minutes. Arsenal were well below par last night with some key players out themselves before we start to use injuries as an excuse yet they still managed to win pretty comfortably.

We kept hearing on here before the game how we'd see the City of last season after a weeks rest, we didn't, instead we saw the same old shite we've seen for the past 3 months. This is not going to change for the rest of the season whilst Pellegrini is in charge, we've lost 5 games before christmas and that's 5 defeats from the last 12 league games. That isn't even top 4 standards. My fear is, with the whole Pep situation we're basically sacrificing this season just to bring him in, and have already written it off, deciding that Pellegrini will see out the year and move aside for Guardiola. I don't see why we should, the team is strong enough to win the league this year without Pep. Bring in an interim manager right now before not only the title hopes fade away but also the top 4. we're closer to 7th placed Watford than we are to the top of the league. And the worrying thing is, we're not in a slump of form, it's beyond that, we're stuck in a rut.

We must have watched a different game as the one I saw, we weren't half as bad as you are portraying.

 

[blueincy]

He's wasnt the reason but he offers little help to the back 4 when we play teams like Arsenal. Yes, I'm a big fan of Yaya but I dont let that cloud my judgement. Delph would have given alot more support/protection to the back 4 if he had played a more central role and pushed Yaya higher up the field. If we use Yaya right he can still have a big impact for us.....90min in a holding midfield role is not what Yaya does best and you dont have to love or hate Yaya to know that.....and as Mangala has shown, you put him under pressure and he makes mistakes....so playing Yaya in front of Mangala and expecting them to hold a team like Arsenal, is just not going to work....just my opinion but we've seen alot of games this season where these areas have caused us problems and against some very average teams.......

You've just answered yourself with that reply. So it should've been MP getting the shit for the team set up not Yaya playing in a shit position correct? Just seemed strange to me you were bigging up Delph who played shit playing out of position on the left wing yet you were slagging Yaya..

 

[daztrueblue91]

Ignoring the formation for a moment, we are currently defending like we are playing 4-4-2.

Our CB's are like a dog chasing a stick when they see an attacker within 10 meters on them. That picture from last night where Arsenal have 3 men open in our penalty area because Otamendi has gone walkabouts says it all.

I understand the need to want to try and win the ball back quickly but we often get the CB trying to do the CM's job which gifts the opposition a shit load of space.

We are getting cut open at will anyway and that is simply not going to change. At least if we go 4-4-2 and focus on our movement and directness we can give the opposition more to think about.

 

[ninjamonkey]

We must have watched a different game as the one I saw, we weren't half as bad as you are portraying.

It wasn't as bad as it has been recently but i put that more down to Arsenal being quite poor and allowing us the ball as part of their gameplan. Not until the last 5 minutes did i get the impression we could score, we had possession but didn't use it well and never really had Arsenal worried. The game wasn't as close as the scoreline and some of the stats would suggest in my eyes. An underwhelming Arsenal were extremely comfortable and game managed in the end, sitting back soaking up pressure with ease under no real strain and saving legs with a busy Christmas period coming up.

Side note, I fully expect the same kind of thing against Leicester, same kind of performance from both sides and a similar result. Given what happened last night and him knowing full well what Leicester do, will Pellegrini do anything different tactically?

 

[afc16]

Probably the worst insult i can give you, and this is not to piss anyone off, is that city reminded me of our game against utd recently. Utd and city didn't seem to have any plan or idea about what they were supposed to do, there was a major lack of passion/desire, a lot of the passes didn't seem to have any 'meaning' to them. Arsenal have played like that many times in the past as well, there is just that sense you get as a fan that the team doesn't have any idea what it's supposed to be doing. I sensed that from man utd and surprisingly from city as well. The last 10 mins was more like the city i expected.

Also if i'm being honest, by that point we really should have been 3/4 up at least. We didn't play great ourselves, but apart from the odd 20 mins it was an even game in terms of quality. We had by far the most clear cut chances to score more goals. The difference was our players just seemed to work and press harder, and in general looked like they were up for it way more.

 

[TCIB]

Probably the worst insult i can give you, and this is not to piss anyone off, is that city reminded me of our game against utd recently. Utd and city didn't seem to have any plan or idea about what they were supposed to do, there was a major lack of passion/desire, a lot of the passes didn't seem to have any 'meaning' to them. Arsenal have played like that many times in the past as well, there is just that sense you get as a fan that the team doesn't have any idea what it's supposed to be doing. I sensed that from man utd and surprisingly from city as well. The last 10 mins was more like the city i expected.

Also if i'm being honest, by that point we really should have been 3/4 up at least. We didn't play great ourselves, but apart from the odd 20 mins it was an even game in terms of quality. We had by far the most clear cut chances to score more goals. The difference was our players just seemed to work and press harder, and in general looked like they were up for it way more.

Considering the circumstances last night was no disgrace for us. You are a fine team and were at home, we did not get hammered and neither did you.
A lot on here are losing their shit and i have no idea why, yes we are working at way less than 100% but some blues are going off the rails xD

Up until the first goal it was looking slightly in our favour even, to my eyes at least.

 

[afc16]

Considering the circumstances last night was no disgrace for us. You are a fine team and were at home, we did not get hammered and neither did you.
A lot on here are losing their shit and i have no idea why, yes we are working at way less than 100% but some blues are going off the rails xD

Up until the first goal it was looking slightly in our favour even, to my eyes at least.

Possible, and by no means were you hammered or anything (however you could have been as we really should have scored from those 2 other chances), however i think the thing id be most disappointed with if i was a city fan is the lack of passion/desire/work rate from almost all the city players. Again, I'm not sitting on my high horse, I've seen the same from arsenal many times however this season and most of last season we seem to have got rid of that bad attitude.

 

[stablemcfc]

1, It wasn't a close game, it seemed this way only because they dropped deep for the last 15 minutes after yaya converted a very unlikely chance. You keep talking about "we should have been leading", but the DeBruyne chance wasn't anything like clear cut. The angle was very tight, and the pass wasn't on either. So to keep suggesting you should have been leading by the time they grabbed their goal is very generous.

2, They didn't shut up shop after their first goal which i concede was a punt(like yaya's), they kept coming forward, and scored again. Only when they got the 2nd did they truly shut up shop, as anyone would against another top 4 side....so yes they DID execute their plan, maybe not well gievn they missed so many chances to score on the break, but it got the job done.

3, I have, in every single post mentioned that arsenal were average, yet you keep talking as if this has gone over your head. The point is city were far worse over 90 mins and had no plan as always, aside from playing delph on the left which resulted in that infamous pass which ono posted a picture of, and a sterling sub at half time.

4, You keep associating a battering with men vs boys, yet i can tell you dozens of games in recent years where its been men vs boys without the battering to reflect this fact.

5, re "certainly not now and certainly not panic buy in january". No i wouldn't want another bony, but do YOU want an UCL place? Its simply so far off the pace at present that you cannot just sit there and assume you will safely qualify without measures being taken. I can guarantee you that abromovic is currently wishing he'd given jose the boot earlier now, as their top 4 place is pretty much done and dusted. Plus, you either need to bring in a defender or call Denayer back from loan, and really you need a striker. I'd say CM too but that is a difficult area to cover in january, given its arguably the area where the most money is needed to be spent.

6, A decent clear cut chance wouldn't have been created last night if the game went on for 200mins...

1. You say it wasn't close, yet I'm sure you mentioned we were the better team for the first 30 minutes + the last 15 so that's 45 minutes of us being the better team and 45 minutes of them - yes their 45 minutes was more significant hence they won, but I just don't see how you can claim we were so thoroughly outplayed (i.e. we were so dreadful we should have lost 4-5 nil), they won because they were tactically better and were more clinical, not because they played so much better than us.

2. Kept coming forward? Unless I'm mistaken they had 2 shots in the first half (I'm almost certain on this fact). They put together 2 decent attacks (in fact that's generous, they weren't attacking, we passed it to them for the 2nd, so one decent attack) and scored twice, so you must see my confusion about where you saw them creating so much trouble for us? After that it's natural they created a couple more chances when we're chasing a game 2-0 down - any team would.

3. Your point is you think City were far worse, my point is that I think we were slightly worse - these are opinions not facts. We agree on the second point though, our plan was non-existent/poor and contributed to the loss.

4. Men vs Boys for me is when it's very one sided in a certain department, if you're talking on the pitch, then like I said no chance, if we were boys they were teenagers at best. If you're talking tactics then like I said that's Wenger vs Pellegrini & I'm closer to sharing your opinion.

5. Do you really think we're off pace for CL spot? We're playing as bad as I've seen us for years, with crippling injuries to key players for almost the entirety of the season, and we're in 3rd. It's quite simply a fact that we are in the CL spot currently, and if the second half of the season repeated we would end up in the CL. Do you think we'll be worse in the second half? Personally cannot see it, with Kompany, Aguero & Silva back even if we're a mess tactically we should have enough (easily) to get top 4 & even challenge for 1st/2nd IMO. Don't get me wrong I think other teams will do better 2nd half, but I certainly think we will too.

6. I guess we'll agree to disagree about KdB chance, for me he scores that 8/10 times, which I'd call clear cut - even could have squared for Silva if he'd chosen to pass early for a 10/10 tap in. Yaya also missed a chance from a few yards out near the end at 2-1 (hit wide) - again I'd argue that was fairly clear cut even if he's under pressure. Again we'll have to agree to disagree because they looked shaky at the back & we looked like we had an equaliser in us if we'd scored 10 minutes earlier.

Well, think it's clear we're at different ends of the spectrum on that performance, for me it was more promising that if we can compete away at Arsenal (although still not good), that we can have a mediocre season & refresh in the summer. You obviously saw it as more worrying. Clearly we're not going to change each others opinions so I'll leave it there though.

 

[blueinsa]

Probably the worst insult i can give you, and this is not to piss anyone off, is that city reminded me of our game against utd recently. Utd and city didn't seem to have any plan or idea about what they were supposed to do, there was a major lack of passion/desire, a lot of the passes didn't seem to have any 'meaning' to them. Arsenal have played like that many times in the past as well, there is just that sense you get as a fan that the team doesn't have any idea what it's supposed to be doing. I sensed that from man utd and surprisingly from city as well. The last 10 mins was more like the city i expected.

Also if i'm being honest, by that point we really should have been 3/4 up at least. We didn't play great ourselves, but apart from the odd 20 mins it was an even game in terms of quality. We had by far the most clear cut chances to score more goals. The difference was our players just seemed to work and press harder, and in general looked like they were up for it way more.

No argument from me there.

 

[ballinio]

Possible, and by no means were you hammered or anything (however you could have been as we really should have scored from those 2 other chances), however i think the thing id be most disappointed with if i was a city fan is the lack of passion/desire/work rate from almost all the city players. Again, I'm not sitting on my high horse, I've seen the same from arsenal many times however this season and most of last season we seem to have got rid of that bad attitude.

You've summed us up well, lack of passion , work rate are the minimum a fan wants from his team. We were well beaten, the score line flattered us , we're going backwards at an alarming rate. Our standards are way lower now as some City fans actually think we played well.

 

[hinchcliffes bulbous conk]

Probably the worst insult i can give you, and this is not to piss anyone off, is that city reminded me of our game against utd recently. Utd and city didn't seem to have any plan or idea about what they were supposed to do, there was a major lack of passion/desire, a lot of the passes didn't seem to have any 'meaning' to them. Arsenal have played like that many times in the past as well, there is just that sense you get as a fan that the team doesn't have any idea what it's supposed to be doing. I sensed that from man utd and surprisingly from city as well. The last 10 mins was more like the city i expected.

Also if i'm being honest, by that point we really should have been 3/4 up at least. We didn't play great ourselves, but apart from the odd 20 mins it was an even game in terms of quality. We had by far the most clear cut chances to score more goals. The difference was our players just seemed to work and press harder, and in general looked like they were up for it way more.

De Bruyne, Navas, Toure and Bony all had clear cut chances. Add to that to our greater possession away from home leads me to believe you're not as good as you think you are. Still fancy us to finish above you.

 

[mayo31]

Nothing is won In December, foundations are laid.

We are 6 points behind Leicester yet have to play them twice. 5 points behind Arsenal yet also have to play them again.

A long way to go. I will remember the Arsenal celebrations from last night as if they had won the title, reminded me of when the dippers beat us 3-2 at Anfield the year they fell apart. I enjoyed rubbing the dippers nose in it more when the title was awarded. Hopefully the same will happen.

I understand teams celebrating but that last night was for me a tad embarrassing or I am just not used to City being the scalp we seem to be these days.

 

[AwayDay]

I'm not sure what to make of city,
I can't understand why some expected us to completely outplay them and win easily and are somehow ok with playing well and losing.
You got silva de Bruyne Toure sterling Aguero. It's like a premier league dream team, im not surprised we sat back and approached the game in the same way we did against Bayern munich. City have so much talent in their side that I'd take that performance and win against them yesterday every day. We paid you the sort of respect, tactically, that we ll only do against Bayern and Barca , because of the calibre of players you have.
I don't understand why your expectations seem so low this season when you have such a great team.