Hmmmm
Do you see the sale / merger of the LSE as either /both
a) a bad thing??
b) something resulting from Brexit??
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
Hmmmm
Do you see the sale / merger of the LSE as either /both
a) a bad thing??
b) something resulting from Brexit??
dave_blue12
Well-Known Member
People being persuaded by one side of the argument via 'lies and deceit implemented by hackers with an agenda' has nothing to do with democracy being challenged.
In the end, your own personal vote matters in that you could have been "bombarded" with a certain narrative 99% of the way through the debates yet, in the voting booth, change your mind at the last moment to go against everything you were told, because we're allowed to do that. Human beings have that capability. You don't have to justify your voting decision to anyone. It's not required to have your vote be validated nor does it mean your vote means anything less than anyone elses who may have been more informed, nor should it mean their votes are discounted. THAT would be against democracy. Suggesting that there is an "evil, hidden force at work, manipulating the public with nasty messages designed to penetrate their minds to vote in the way they want them to" is outlandish.
My ONLY concern about hacking is if it directly affected the votes via changing them once they had been cast. i.e. fraud. If i've voted one way and hackers changed my vote to give the opposing opinion as it was being counted, then i'd have concerns. I don't care one jot if there are hackers manipulating the press, my facebook feed, I still have the capacity to ignore their message and make my own decision. Some people voted becase they believed a slogan on a bus, some people voted because they did more accurate research and some people voted the way they did because they went "meh, fuck it". Regardless, under our democratic system, all those votes are valid and are counted equally.
It's left up to the analysts to debate whether their votes were 'ethical', 'beneficial' or 'informed'. Doesn't matter to the vote count itself, nor should it. One person, one vote, how that vote is cast has nothing to do with anyone else other than the individual who casts it. All you can do is use your vote to challenge theirs.
I'm afraid it has everything to do with democracy.
We have rules concerning elections for a reason. The reasons are in the main to prevent the manipulation of the vote.
You may well not be susceptible to subliminal persuasion on this particular issue but others who do not feel so strongly may well be. The Co's who are dealing in this type of Psycho Campaign are not within the UK and so are beyond the reach of the UK Electoral Commission who have sought with little success to investigate this issue.
The process of winning elections is about influencing those who are open to be influenced, 'the floating voter' term is often used. Psycho campaigning recognises and targets those voters through the gathering of data from all available sources and then uses that data to tailor a programme of persuasion without the voter ever knowing what is happening.
A crude example might be used on a parent by associating child abuse with a political party. I believe the methods are much more sophisticated than this but you get my drift.
This type of thing is reprehensible whoever is gaining or losing by it.
inchy14
Well-Known Member
I also do not believe that everyone that voted in a certain way was manipulated.
What I do believe, and there is a lot of evidence to back up the belief, is that certain people were identified as persuadable and then bombarded with messages to sway them in a certain direction without them ever being aware of what was going on.
The problem with all this is that if we are on social media (and I am) then we are all potential targets.
I don't care about the politics of the journalists or what football team they support. I care about democracy.
This is not about Brexit. This is about democracy !
But doesn't this and hasn't this always happened?
Len, Fumble etc.. are in 1 camp and no matter how many 'likes' are posted on Facebook or whatever, they aren't just going to change their view. Same with mcfc1632 or metalbiker, their minds are made up.
It's the easily manipulated who they're targeting but again hasn't that what has always happened with party political broadcasts, the papers lining up to support who they want?
Good call, perhaps one of the Mods can strip out the posts associated to this important topic to a new thread so that it can receive the focus it deserves and does not distract this thread.I think it is truly sad that this issue is bound up with the Brexit argument.
I actually thought about starting a new thread but thought it possible that no-one would read it.
Brexit is done and whilst I find it unfortunate (time will tell) it is done, we are leaving the EU.
However, to ignore the issues raised just because those raising them have a different view is foolish in my opinion.
Carol Cadwalladr's articles appear well researched with names, quotes and supporting evidence. The Electoral Commission and The Information Commission appear to be taking the issue seriously. I cannot therefore dismiss what she is saying even if my politics probably differ somewhat to hers.
Its pretty obvious we will get no trade deals. Just get out, and max tarrifs on EU imports. A lot of UK businesses need new trading partners outside of the EU otherwise unemployment will rise dramatically, hence we will have major tax rises to pay for it. Tell them that we are not paying a penny for committed spending in the EU. What can they do other than go to war and invade.
The Tories have Toried this country into becoming a Torydom where only Tories Tory the Tory where Tories benefit. Only the SNP will deliver an independent voice in an independent time, in an independent way, that leaves us independently dependent on independence.
Seriously though, what was that post about?
Bit early for drink I had thought??
Excuse me.............But doesn't this and hasn't this always happened?
Len, Fumble etc.. are in 1 camp and no matter how many 'likes' are posted on Facebook or whatever, they aren't just going to change their view. Same with mcfc1632 or metalbiker, their minds are made up.
It's the easily manipulated who they're targeting but again hasn't that what has always happened with party political broadcasts, the papers lining up to support who they want?
I am totally open-minded - so long as we leave the EU
MillionMilesAway
Well-Known Member
... They voted because for 40+ years the 'intelligent' people told them they were racist and stupid for wanting to express their views and concerns....
..and it gave them a chance to prove them right?
(joke, obviously).
inchy14
Well-Known Member
Excuse me.............
I am totally open-minded - so long as we leave the EU
Sorry, i was just using the 2 opposite sides of your argument with Len and Fumble to show my point.
MillionMilesAway
Well-Known Member
But doesn't this and hasn't this always happened?
Len, Fumble etc.. are in 1 camp and no matter how many 'likes' are posted on Facebook or whatever, they aren't just going to change their view. Same with mcfc1632 or metalbiker, their minds are made up.
It's the easily manipulated who they're targeting but again hasn't that what has always happened with party political broadcasts, the papers lining up to support who they want?
Careful, dangerous balance is evident in this post!
How much effect is possible to gain by targetting through the evil that is social media is something fro people to argue about.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.