Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

[MillionMilesAway]

Would that be the same Geoffrey Howe whose criticism was famously likened to "being savaged by a dead sheep"?

I can see why you admire him when you've simultaneously wet your pampers before negotiations have started in earnest and cum prematurely at the prospect of their failure.

You're in good company though so carry on salivating.

Good night.

He was, but that was by Healey, on the opposite side of the House.
Rather different to be talking about Howe's own side.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I am totally ashamed at the ineptitude of this government. How the European negotiation team must view us god only knows. Am I right in thinking from the first day talks yesterday that we are still persuing the terms of the article 50 letter? Withdrawal from single market and customs agreements, and that we have gone belly up in our stated strategy to run parallel talks? May and Cameron should be charged with criminal damage to the Uk and locked up.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Now that the negotiations have become a two stage process, how will that affect parliamentary approval of "the deal" ? Effectively there will now be two deals, a divorce deal and a trade deal. If the divorce deal is "agreed" by the negotiators later this year, will that be put to parliament for approval before moving on to the trade deal? Would there be any point in moving on to the trade deal if a clear majority in parliament have already indicated they will not approve the divorce deal?

If say 20 Tory MPs oppose the divorce deal on the grounds that its too expensive and they would prefer "no deal", could they force a vote? How would the opposition parties likely vote in those circumstances?

The divorce deal will be put to Parliament, which was always going to be the case. the idea that a trade deal and the divorce deal would go hand in hand was never a possibility and those peddling that nonsense need to give their head a wobble

There in lies the problem.

May held the election because she wanted a stonking majority, then she would've controlled (at least at our end) the agenda and had a sufficient majority to ram through Parliament whatever dogs dinner she liked.

She doesn't have that majority now, not only does she have hard and soft Brexiters in the Tory Party, she's got Scottish Tories now with their own agenda and of course the DUP, she's even got the odd remainer. Put bluntly she can't depend on her own party to support her version of Brexit.

Because of this May needs other parties, particularly the Labour Party. She has the numbers to leave, we are definitely leaving, there are overwhelming numbers for leaving now in Westminster and we are going to leave the single market, there is a majority for that as well, we will stay inside the customs union for quite a long time as a transitional agreement that's a given, assuming the EU will allow it (they are in the driving seat and goodwill is in short supply), but come the day that MPs troop through the lobby to vote on the leave settlement she'll need Corbyn trooping along side her (assuming she's still PM come the day).

 

[sir baconface]

Good Morning.
Another one that doesn't get his facts right before making a statement.
It wasn't his criticism of Thatcher that was likened to being "savaged by a dead sheep"
It was Denis Healey, the Labour former cabinet minister who made the "savaged by a dead sheep" comment. But it was in 1978.
The "broken bats" speech wasn't made till 1990.

Morning.

I didn't ascribe the comment to his pop at Thatcher, but to his powers of criticism in general. So maybe read and digest before engaging digit, eh?

 

[sir baconface]

He was, but that was by Healey, on the opposite side of the House.
Rather different to be talking about Howe's own side.

Either way, the guy was a wet-lettuce with a poncey hair-do.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Either way, the guy was a wet-lettuce with a poncey hair-do.

..whose resignation speech brought Thatcher down.

 

[sir baconface]

You must feel increasingly deflated by all this.

Ha, mate. DisMAYed might be a better term :(

 

[cibaman]

The divorce deal will be put to Parliament, which was always going to be the case. the idea that a trade deal and the divorce deal would go hand in hand was never a possibility and those peddling that nonsense need to give their head a wobble

There in lies the problem.

May held the election because she wanted a stonking majority, then she would've controlled (at least at our end) the agenda and had a sufficient majority to ram through Parliament whatever dogs dinner she liked.

She doesn't have that majority now, not only does she have hard and soft Brexiters in the Tory Party, she's got Scottish Tories now with their own agenda and of course the DUP, she's even got the odd remainer. Put bluntly she can't depend on her own party to support her version of Brexit.

Because of this May needs other parties, particularly the Labour Party. She has the numbers to leave, we are definitely leaving, there are overwhelming numbers for leaving now in Westminster and we are going to leave the single market, there is a majority for that as well, we will stay inside the customs union for quite a long time as a transitional agreement that's a given, assuming the EU will allow it (they are in the driving seat and goodwill is in short supply), but come the day that MPs troop through the lobby to vote on the leave settlement she'll need Corbyn trooping along side her (assuming she's still PM come the day).

Labour could still maintain the line that they favour leaving the EU, single market, and customs union. But would they vote in favour of accepting a tough divorce bill, if there are a number of Tory rebels prepared to vote against it? Wouldn't they vote it down knowing that would force a general election? Argue that they would re-negotiate a better outcome?

 

[sir baconface]

..whose resignation speech brought Thatcher down.

She had exceeded her sell-by date. Like a CEO who is great at start-ups but less so at running an established business.

 

[Vic]

..... Put bluntly she can't depend on her own party to support her version of Brexit.

Because of this May needs other parties, particularly the Labour Party. She has the numbers to leave, we are definitely leaving, there are overwhelming numbers for leaving now in Westminster ........

Really? That's the manifesto position but most MPs surely think it's all a big mistake.