Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

It is one of the problems in a referendum like that though. The side arguing for the status quo don't have the option of telling absolute lies as a positive argument for their position because everyone knows the truth because they are currently experiencing it. Whereas it was all too easy for lying cunts like Boris to give a ridiculously positive version of what life would be outside the EU that was an utter fiction and then if anyone said he was talking shit he could just say they were being pessimistic or scaremongering.

even in a referendum they could have offered a positive position and said how good the eu was to the uk and how it benefited us and sold the eu. they didnt at all though, it was all negativity. obviously it was a hard job, as the eu has a lot of problems. its the same now though, if we leave everything will be bad. Imo i dont think its going to win many people over and tbh its making me think, screw it, we can do well outside the eu and things can be good. i still think if we had another referendum leave would win. i think we've always been on the verge of leaving/wanting to leave anyway and i dont think the eu really want us either.

 

[Lancet Fluke]

even in a referendum they could have offered a positive position and said how good the eu was to the uk and how it benefited us and sold the eu. they didnt at all though, it was all negativity. obviously it was a hard job, as the eu has a lot of problems. its the same now though, if we leave everything will be bad. Imo i dont think its going to win many people over and tbh its making me think, screw it, we can do well outside the eu and things can be good. i still think if we had another referendum leave would win. i think we've always been on the verge of leaving/wanting to leave anyway and i dont think the eu really want us either.

I'm sure if they had another referendum now leave would win because we haven't even left yet but I'm fairly convinced in about 10 years time, probably much earlier, the general population will still be unhappy with their lot, they won't be thinking life is great outside the EU, it will just be general dissatisfaction which is the default position for a population in this country IMO. That's why campaigning for the status quo in this country is impossible. Same happened in Scotland, they nearly lost it from being way way ahead in the polls because creating a fairy tale narrative to go with the change is easy, persuading people that what they currently have is great is nigh on impossible especially compared to the fiction that doesn't need to be evidenced.

 

[Mike J]

There will be a time lag mate between losing existing EU business and winning extra business from new trade deals ( time to negotiate the new deals and then to take advantage of the new opportunities).
Could be ten years plus.
That's economic hardship for a long time.
Brexit was always about this.
Still we'll have more control even though we'll be poorer.

to be fair if the government remove the austerity measures for now, maybe we can get through things with less stress. we only have 2 years to wait for the EU talks to expire anyway so it shouldn't be a 10 year thing.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

I'm sure if they had another referendum now leave would win because we haven't even left yet but I'm fairly convinced in about 10 years time, probably much earlier, the general population will still be unhappy with their lot, they won't be thinking life is great outside the EU, it will just be general dissatisfaction which is the default position for a population in this country IMO. That's why campaigning for the status quo in this country is impossible. Same happened in Scotland, they nearly lost it from being way way ahead in the polls because creating a fairy tale narrative to go with the change is easy, persuading people that what they currently have is great is nigh on impossible especially compared to the fiction that doesn't need to be evidenced.

well tbf mate you have given an example of the status quo winning in scotland. maybe they should have followed that referendum more ? it is very difficult though as the eu to me isn't that great and the things offered like control are very persuasive arguments to people. maybe in ten years time that could be the case, but its near impossible to predict in two years never mind ten haha. dianne abbot could be prime minister at this rate :D

 

[Lancet Fluke]

well tbf mate you have given an example of the status quo winning in scotland. maybe they should have followed that referendum more ? it is very difficult though as the eu to me isn't that great and the things offered like control are very persuasive arguments to people. maybe in ten years time that could be the case, but its near impossible to predict in two years never mind ten haha. dianne abbot could be prime minister at this rate :D

Really? I referenced the Scottish referendum precisely because I think the "status quo" campaign was remarkably similar, they fell into that very same trap where they found it almost impossible to "sell" the status quo. As I said, they were way ahead in the polls at the start of the campaign and nearly lost, the SNP promised the earth and did nothing but accuse the other side of scaremongering and being negative. The whole thing played out in the much same way but they clung on by the skin of their teeth. Your point about Diane Abbott is interesting. I think people in this country are generally unhappy with their lot because our domestic political situation leaves a lot to be desired. We have become a very fractured society who are not happy with the people who are supposed to represent us. I don't think leaving the EU will change any of that or make the populous any happier because they will still be left with a load of absolute arseholes running the country and in opposition.

 

[goalmole]

You were saying how the EU wont budge to make it less attractive for anyone else who wants to leave the union, why exactly would we stay in a union that demands that kind of subservient compliance? We leave and we negotiate a new deal that's the long and short of it.

How is it subservient compliance? It's a choice. The EU are just making sure that people understand that it can't be as beneficial to leave as it is stay, or in other words there is no cake and eat it. Any deal that is negotiated cannot be as generous as staying in or the EU wouldn't last a month.
Barnier has reiterated just today that some people in the Uk have not understood what it means to leave the EU.
“I have heard some people in the UK argue that one can leave the single market and keep all of its benefits. That is not possible.”
“I have heard some people in the UK argue that one can leave the single market and build a customs union to build frictionless trade. That is not possible. The decision to leave the EU has consequences.”
That's the Brexit the EU will give us, not a slice of cake to be seen.

 

[vonkeynotvenky]

How is it subservient compliance? It's a choice. The EU are just making sure that people understand that it can't be as beneficial to leave as it is stay, or in other words there is no cake and eat it. Any deal that is negotiated cannot be as generous as staying in or the EU wouldn't last a month.
Barnier has reiterated just today that some people in the Uk have not understood what it means to leave the EU.
“I have heard some people in the UK argue that one can leave the single market and keep all of its benefits. That is not possible.”
“I have heard some people in the UK argue that one can leave the single market and build a customs union to build frictionless trade. That is not possible. The decision to leave the EU has consequences.”
That's the Brexit the EU will give us, not a slice of cake to be seen.

We had a choice mate, we decided to leave.

 

[goalmole]

We had a choice mate, we decided to leave.

Good argument. Enjoy the cake.

 

[Len Rum]

a lot of it was scaremongering. I'm still waiting for world war 3, the immediate recession and wasnt it 500,000 unemployed ? of course the eu are going to act tough, they want the best for the eu. but they will want a trade deal/some kind of deal with us, its in their interests to have one. maybe if the remain side offered a positive vision for staying in the eu rather then doom and gloom about leaving they might have won.

Doesn't look as though business leaders share your optimism, latest is that they're meeting with DD on Friday to demand an indefinite transition period in the EU before a deal is sorted.

 

[goalmole]

Doesn't look as though business leaders share your optimism, latest is that they're meeting with DD on Friday to demand an indefinite transition period in the EU before a deal is sorted.

Also known as a fudge.