Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

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I know you are determined to make your point. However, the goods would be compliant, hence the paperwork exercise you describe. Now if the EU were to take this position on day 1 what do you think would be happening to the even greater number of lorries heading the other way?
It would be really bad news for Germany , it would affect 8% of their exports, for France 6%.
For UK it's only 44% of our exports that will be affected.
( ok bit of poetic license -I've included financial services and services but you know what, the loss of equivalence would impact heavily on on regulated services).
 
It would be really bad news for Germany , it would affect 8% of their exports, for France 6%.
For UK it's only 44% of our exports that will be affected.
( ok bit of poetic license -I've included financial services and services but you know what, the loss of equivalence would impact heavily on on regulated services).

For the EU it would be 14% of their budget and this is the crux of the matter.
 
Sadly for you it isn't.

When are you guys going to admit this isn't about economics, it's about nationalism.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree, but I still think you've got it wrong.

The EU is more nationalistic than the UK. It puts little fucking flags on everything it touches. The people of the UK didn't like the EU taking the credit for the UK peoples' hard work (hard work funds tax which funds the EU which funds little flagged projects).

I think most Brexit voters think the common market was beneficial to the UK, and wouldn't have voted leave in a month of Sundays had the ECC stayed just that. Political union is a big step too far for most though. The only crying shame is that we didn't get a national referendum on the Maastricht Treaty.
 
What a massive load of old shit.

Really? So Brexit boy what's your economic rationale for leaving the most successful trading bloc in history? Let's hear your vision for a “Global Britain” that will reprise our historical place as an international trading hub.

Or are you going to blow it out your arse as usual.
 
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Juncker genuinely hates the UK doesn't he?

Mind, there's a few on this thread who I suspect feel the same.
 
Sadly for you it isn't.

When are you guys going to admit this isn't about economics, it's about nationalism.
Two questions for you and the other remainers.

1. How long do you think it will be before countries start splitting off from total unity and creating problems inside the EU. Countries like Greece and Portugal for example? Maybe Italy too, don't forget we are now approaching Summer when immigration will inevitably increase from what is already an unsustainable position.

2. Do you genuinely believe there is enough "giveaway" wealth in the EU economy to maintain the status quo when we've left. The moment even more harsh austerity measures are announced I think the Greeks and the Portuguese people will "let their governments know" how they feel about Germany and France constantly telling them what to do.

Personally I think the EU will be in a very bad place come this winter. I could be wrong but somehow I don't think so. You
 
All the major players are locked, some might say imprisoned, by the positions they find themselves in. If Yanis Varoufakis is right and I believe he is, then there's not the slightest possibility of a favourable outcome for all parties, not because they don't desire it, but because they are incapable of delivering it, they are locked in to a mind set that makes it impossible.....




"If Yanis Varoufakis is right and I believe he is............."

I really admire this guy. What a role model he has been at 'reinventing himself' - I am genuine in that comment - I really admire what he has achieved for himself

He is never off our televisions nowadays, being brought in to speak on panels such as Question Time etc. - popping up as an authoritative speaker on all matters of dealing with the EU on all the News channels and so on.

In doing so he is earning himself a healthy consultancy fee I am sure and further cementing himself as this authoritative speaker. He has a job for years. When it settles down in the UK, I am sure he will have become fluent in whichever language is needed to see him being asked to provide his expertise wherever the next exit from the EU crops up - although I bet he is privately hoping for Irexit.

So, lets just examine his credentials to be this Guru on all matters in successfully dealing with the EU.........

Hmmm, it seems to really simply be down to him having spent less than six months as Greece's Finance minister. That is less than six months in which his time was taken up in leading the negotiations with Greece's creditors during the Greek government-debt crisis. During this period, as he tells us endlessly, he spent his time being given the run around by the EU - failing at every turn to get people to even speak to him, let alone get answers from the EU to any proposal that he put forward.

Having totally failed he then resigned.

Yes, I can absolutely accept that he is fully qualified to speak about his one experience of just how arrogant and contemptuous the EU are - especially when the EU are dealing with an EU member that is essentially bankrupt and begging for a bailout.

I confess though to being a bit bemused about how this positions him to speak so authoritatively about how a nation that is the EU's 2nd largest economy should be planning to successfully negotiate with these same arrogant and contemptuous EU apparatchiks.

You select from this clip a few seconds in which he suggests that the UK are inane to put ending the FOM forward as being essential. Well I of course can understand that view, but this can be easily justified. To deliver Brexit May has rightly, IMO, interpreted that controls over our borders, money and laws are clearly viewed, by the UK electorate, as being right at the heart of the UK's decision to leave and therefore essential.

Much more interesting for me in that clip was the much longer period in which he spoke about the manner in which the EU obfuscate and avoid 'actual negotiations' - describing exactly the scenarios that we would have faced if the veto amendment had gone through or if May is not backed by a sufficient majority in Westminster.

You can actually find online other pieces of his wisdom, such as:

How the UK should unilaterally and immediately award UK citizenship to the 3.2m EU nationals here - he argues that in so doing it removes a negotiating chip from the EU - ???

or

How we should immediately act to trigger our joining the EEA to therefore give us an extra 5 years to conduct the negotiations with the EU. In this article he admits, as he does in the clip you pasted, that the EU will not negotiate seriously - they will continue to treat us with contempt and negotiations will not actually get anywhere. Of course we will have to be making full contributions during this period and accepting the 4 freedoms.

Yep, I have got him down as the 'go to guy' (not) for offering the UK authoritative advice in our dealings with the EU over the next 2 years to achieve a successful outcome for the UK.

As an aside - he says that he would opt for Corbyn over May to face-off against the EU in the negotiations. At least that would likely ensure that he, Yanis, did not go down in history as being the biggest failure when negotiating with the EU.

But as I say - I can really admire how he has established himself as some Oracle figure - on the back of what seems to be very limited credible experience
 
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Simple.
To make up the 8bn pa UK shortfall, net contributors will have to contribute a little bit more.
Germany chip in an extra 2, France 1, Netherlands 1, Italy 1, Sweden et al 1. Trim 2bn off spending ( or get the 22 others to chip in extra 2/6d each).
Sorted.
Next.

Hmmm - your casual view about the strength of the EU economies and how they can so readily do without access to the UK's cash is not really borne out my the angst that they are displaying so far - and their seeming desperation to extract as much as possible before the goose takes flight.

I am surprised as they are so economically robust they are not just telling us to sling our hook. This does not seem to be about 8bn - but you carry on.
 
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I've had a revelation. May gets a thumping majority, having seen off UKIP by stealing the hard brexit / cliff edge clothes and satiated her own party's eurosceptics (Major's bastards). Once elected, with a whole new bunch of pragmatic MPs, she's free to negotiate the best deal possible - and that suddenly becomes one where doing away with freedom of movement isn't such a red line.

Wouldn't that be interesting?

Its called negotiating.

I personally would be happy with some form of phasing with regard FOM cessation. So long as we and not the EU are in control of the date - say 5 - 7 years-so long as the clock is ticking.
 
Juncker genuinely hates the UK doesn't he?

Mind, there's a few on this thread who I suspect feel the same.


I think that he is really hurting:

"Turning to Brexit, Mr Juncker continued: "We shouldn't under-estimate the importance of the decision made by the British people. It is no small event.

"And of course we will negotiate with our British friends in full transparency, but there should be no doubt whatsoever that it is not the EU which is abandoning the UK, it is the opposite - they are abandoning the EU."

I wonder if him and Tusk ever find it within themselves to sit down with each other and comment something like;

"........what idiots we really were - if only we had treated Cameron with a lot of contempt rather than being so obvious that we were treating him and the UK population with absolute and utter contempt........"

Bet Merkel's told them
 
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