Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

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The perfect fumble said:
Liberty to suck Tory dick rather than Euro dick is no liberty at all.
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mcfc1632 said:
Hmmm - your casual view about the strength of the EU economies and how they can so readily do without access to the UK's cash is not really borne out my the angst that they are displaying so far - and their seeming desperation to extract as much as possible before the goose takes flight.

I am surprised as they are so economically robust they are not just telling us to sing our hook. This does not seem to be about 8bn - but you carry on.
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Oh ok then mate.
Carrying on, maybe they could split the 8bn bill twenty seven ways, that's about five bob each.
Major problem that loss of UK cash you know.
 
Len - you mistake me for someone that is trying to persuade you of something

I am simply stating that access to our cash is a major dependency for the EU and a major strength of ours. That is a self-evident fact borne out by everything that is taking place at the moment - all the EU focus is on access to our cash - and not just the 8bn that you bang on about.

What percentage of the articles written about Brexit include comments on the EU seeking cash from us - how may times is it mention in interviews?

All the unfolding events demonstrate that I am right and you are wrong - simple really.

Along with others you seem to be very determined in the view that the UK has a weak negotiating position and will need to suck up whatever the EU demand. Why would I care if you want to put your hands over your ears and close your mind - you have done so this since June - carry on

Edit to add: I noticed that you did not respond to my post on page 188 which included:

"I would like to add a 6th step - but this is just my wishful thinking probably.

6. Recall how many times in the last months I have pointed out to you that, from a negotiating POV, it is highly likely that we are going to need to have the option to threaten to walk-away because the our Trump Card is the EU's dependency on access to our money and that card needs to be played well.

As these events are unfolding, who knows, you might bring yourself to consider that my comments may have had some validity afterall and acknowledge that?"

................again this is something else that is being proven to have been correct
 
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I am always very sceptical about messages that are leaked out - but it would indeed be very interesting if there was iany substance behind this leak that the German government are considering UK access to the single market for an annual fee.

The article refers to a 35 page report drawn up by German government officials, in which are expressed, despite Len's assurances, concerns about the impact to Germany of the loss of our cash.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-germany-idUKKBN1820CQ
 
mcfc1632 said:
I am always very sceptical about messages that are leaked out - but it would indeed be very interesting if there was iany substance behind this leak that the German government are considering UK access to the single market for an annual fee.

The article refers to a 35 page report drawn up by German government officials, in which are expressed, despite Len's assurances, concerns about the impact to Germany of the loss of our cash.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-germany-idUKKBN1820CQ
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It's probably a response to this EU analysis:
http://www.epc.eu/documents/uploads/pub_7474_eubudgetpost-brexit.pdf

Which also shows why the EU are asking for 100 billion Euros. They know the impact of us leaving and know the pressure it will place on their budget.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Along with others you seem to be very determined in the view that the UK has a weak negotiating position and will need to suck up whatever the EU demand. Why would I care if you want to put your hands over your ears and close your mind - you have done so this since June - carry on
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It's a weird parodox that left leaning folk always adopt a stance that denigrates the history and achievements of their
nation, and that we're merely an enfeebled outpost that's no longer relevant.
Yet, when their chosen recipients of spending plans are challenged, the answer always seems to be , 'We are a very
rich country, we have the power and ability, etc; etc.
 
Vic said:
I've had a revelation. May gets a thumping majority, having seen off UKIP by stealing the hard brexit / cliff edge clothes and satiated her own party's eurosceptics (Major's bastards). Once elected, with a whole new bunch of pragmatic MPs, she's free to negotiate the best deal possible - and that suddenly becomes one where doing away with freedom of movement isn't such a red line.

Wouldn't that be interesting?
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I'd be over the fucking moon.
 
Len Rum said:
Oh ok then mate.
Carrying on, maybe they could split the 8bn bill twenty seven ways, that's about five bob each.
Major problem that loss of UK cash you know.
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8bn bill twenty seven ways, that's about five bob each.Did you go to the same Maths teacher as Diana Abbot.
 
Len Rum said:
Oh ok then mate.
Carrying on, maybe they could split the 8bn bill twenty seven ways, that's about five bob each.
Major problem that loss of UK cash you know.
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Diane Abbott likes your post.

If money is no issue for the EU they wont be bothered when we tell them to get fucked over there desperate attempt at a divorce settlement will they?
 
Len Rum said:
Oh ok then mate.
Carrying on, maybe they could split the 8bn bill twenty seven ways, that's about five bob each.
Major problem that loss of UK cash you know.
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Half of those 27 countries are complete financial basket cases and wouldn't even be able to afford that.
 
Gelsons Dad said:
It's probably a response to this EU analysis:
http://www.epc.eu/documents/uploads/pub_7474_eubudgetpost-brexit.pdf

Which also shows why the EU are asking for 100 billion Euros. They know the impact of us leaving and know the pressure it will place on their budget.
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Very interesting read that and especially when you consider the authors: The European Policy Centre. Their Mission Statement:

“The European Policy Centre is an independent, not-for-profit think tank dedicated to fostering European integration through analysis and debate, supporting and challenging European decision-makers at all levels to make informed decisions based on evidence and analysis, and providing a platform for engaging partners, stakeholders and citizens in EU policymaking and in the debate about the future of Europe”

They are most certainly not minded to put anything in a positive slant for the benefit of the UK

Well that’s 2 of us that have read it and have the wit to absorb it and take away conclusions from it.

I would be tempted to set out the more obvious conclusions but it seems some on here are not able to handle posts longer than those you might normally find on the Matchday threads. So to pander to those not able to do ‘thinking’ – a concise summary:

1. All the main points made during recent months by those that have an understanding of negotiations and wish for the UK to have a good outcome are generally confirmed to be spot on.

2. All the main ramblings of those on here that are still fighting the pre-23/06 fight and have been desperately hoping to see the EU with the whip hand and the UK to suffer - well, in general their ‘theories’ are fully debunked as being simply the desperate hopes of people in denial.
 
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Len Rum said:
Oh alright then, about £0.3 bn each.
I'm a bit of an old money man myself. Five bob was maybe a bit of an understatement, probably more like a tenner!
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Oh dear, you really cannot see the wood for the trees on this point
 
Just for those that can only consider that the negotiations failing would be bad for us and that the EU27 are seamless in their unity:

http://www.independent.ie/business/...-of-35pc-without-deal-on-brexit-35690099.html

I have been saying for a long time that Ireland is where the pain will be felt first - and hardest. There is already discussion in Ireland, now that it has become a contributor rather than a beneficiary, that it may have to leave the EU - as stated in this article and many others the implications of failing to get a UK/EU deal would:

"...devastate Irish food exports to the UK" and thereby the Irish economy.

They point out similar implications for several other EU countries, including Holland, Belgium, Denmark and suggest that a these countries form a partnership within the EU to influence the EU approach.

Perhaps they could call it the Unity partnership.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Just for those that can only consider that the negotiations failing would be bad for us and that the EU27 are seamless in their unity:

http://www.independent.ie/business/...-of-35pc-without-deal-on-brexit-35690099.html

I have been saying for a long time that Ireland is where the pain will be felt first - and hardest. There is already discussion in Ireland, now that it has become a contributor rather than a beneficiary, that it may have to leave the EU - as stated in this article and many others the implications of failing to get a UK/EU deal would:

"...devastate Irish food exports to the UK" and thereby the Irish economy.

They point out similar implications for several other EU countries, including Holland, Belgium, Denmark and suggest that a these countries form a partnership within the EU to influence the EU approach.

Perhaps they could call it the Unity partnership.
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Yep, lose lose all round mate with the U.K. the biggest loser.
 
Len Rum said:
Yep, lose lose all round mate with the U.K. the biggest loser.
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Fuck me you are getting fumblesque recently

One-liner quips that do not say anything other than moan - you are better than that Len - well at least I gave/give you more credit.

Your one-liner there is meaningless unless there remains the opportunity for the decision to leave the UK to be reversed

Given that seems not only highly unlikely but that leaving seems to be what an increasing majority of the population wants - there comes a time when you need to be able to 'get over it' and discuss what happens during the negotiations and following our having exited - i.e. the subject that this thread is about.

There may be some not able to do that and will still be like the Japanese soldiers - fighting the war years after, but surely you do not want to be in that sad camp?

My post was showing clear evidence that this myth of EU Unity is - well a myth - I am seeing quite a few examples. That is actually important to the future well-being of the UK and worthy of discussion.

There are some of the more limited posters that declare that they have not the capability to read / absorb / debate - but you used to be able to. What has gone wrong - perhaps it is a realisation that the pre 23/06 fight is now finally lost? Buck up mate and re-join the debate
 
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