Assisted dying

[ZenHalfTimeCrock]

Zen is here. One of my favorite posters. Disagree almost every time. But I appreciate the meticulous information.

Top guy!

Thanks.

Most of the time I’m only drawing attention to what others have said, though.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

logans run had it right

If you look at the trajectory we are on as a society mate we are certainly headed that way. The economic hopelessness of young folk now along with a simmering resentment of the 'boomers' and their million pounds houses they bought for 10p 50 years ago is ushering in the dystopian future.

 

[metalblue]

This is how we treated terminal illness back when i was a nurse . No person should have food and fluids taken away , you are literal!y starving the person to death , just how the fuck can you do that to someone . Also giving enough morphine to keep them out of it serves what purpose , so the family can sit by the bed and stare at them, seriously selfish

I feel very strongly about this as i have had twenty years watching patients die of all sorts and i have lost my dad, brother and mum to cancer , i was a young nurse giving my dad morphine injections as we had him at home , if he had been able to he would have told mum and i to get fucked

Curiously how would you propose getting fluids in to a patient who is in their final few days/weeks and not drinking?

 

[kaz7]

All pain can be controlled. It’s a question of how sedated the patient has to be and if that offers any quality of life. As I said previously there is a point in some disease trajectories when death is probably in the patients interest - but this will be the exception not the norm - and I see that if this legislation is passed it will only be available in very limited scenarios and at a single centre in the country. Any notion we may have of someone being helped along their way in their last couple of weeks because of a sudden deterioration feels highly unlikely.

I suppose the “failure” part depends on what areas people specialise in and the passion they have for it. Mrs MB had 8 years as a palliative care CNS and loved doing what she did - PC is centred on one principle and that is to neither hasten nor delay death. Problems can of course arise if it is a late referral to the specialism or poor nursing from your SPC nurse. You give a good PC CNS enough time and you’ll be symptom controlled, anything else she would see as her failing her patient and their families.

Well explained , i do think with the best will in the world , that nurses believe they are doing the right thing keeping patients comfortable , i just think we have been doing it by rendering someone out of it it is no quality of life and the test is would you want to to be in that state at the end ?

The mnd type illnesses are horrific ways to go and i really worry that we cant make that kind without knocking them out with morphine or whatever . I will be ready to take my life if i get a terminal disease or dementa whilst i still can

i only have one brother left now and he is much older and has heart disease , if nature is in the right order i will be alone so
what would be the point of denying me a quick way out

if it is something i wouldnt put my beloved cats through why cant people have the same option

 

[kaz7]

Curiously how would you propose getting fluids in to a patient who is in their final few days/weeks and not drinking?

IV fluids

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

This is an emotive issue for sure and people have different opinions on things but I cannot see where those who are against this are coming from. Its beyond cruel to put people and their loved ones through unbearable pain because some don't have the stomach to do what is right.

Because .... Conservatives hilts

When assisted dying was introduced in some Australian states ... the next act of the right wing was to withdraw/ reduce State support for hospices..... how is that not a surprise

 

[metalblue]

IV fluids

That’s the first thing you’d naturally think of and to start that makes sense. The trouble is the fluid has to go somewhere, when a patient cannot drink their body is shutting down. Initially their bladder will process it but they will have pads in the bed as they can’t go to the loo, this quickly causes break down in skin and pressure sores. Even if they are well bed managed the body will continue to shut down and the IV fluid will eventually accumulates under the tissues - they are then treated for that but that only goes so far and ultimately it goes to the lungs where they drown - the death rattle.

So whilst it seems like you’re doing good you’re actually only going to cause more harm. People will see it as them being denied fluid but in reality it’s only letting nature take its course and not causing more harm. It’s a fine balancing act and often it’s more uncomfortable for the families observing than it is for the patient themselves.

 

[stonerblue]

All pain can be controlled. It’s a question of how sedated the patient has to be and if that offers any quality of life. As I said previously there is a point in some disease trajectories when death is probably in the patients interest - but this will be the exception not the norm - and I see that if this legislation is passed it will only be available in very limited scenarios and at a single centre in the country. Any notion we may have of someone being helped along their way in their last couple of weeks because of a sudden deterioration feels highly unlikely.

I suppose the “failure” part depends on what areas people specialise in and the passion they have for it. Mrs MB had 8 years as a palliative care CNS and loved doing what she did - PC is centred on one principle and that is to neither hasten nor delay death. Problems can of course arise if it is a late referral to the specialism or poor nursing from your SPC nurse. You give a good PC CNS enough time and you’ll be symptom controlled, anything else she would see as her failing her patient and their families.

What if the patient doesn't want to live any more?

 

[Big Joe Corrigan]

The head of the Catholic church was on the radio last night, of course he was against it, and has sent out a letter to be read in all churches tomorrow supporting his views. I’m not sure it should have anything to do with the church.

 

[supercity88]

I think most people would want a peaceful and painless death, if they could choose. When it comes to end of life care you are trying to make people as comfortable as possible but unless they're doped up on morphine which ultimately kills them anyway, they're in some level of pain and with limited quality of life.

My Mum wanted to die about 3 months before she actually did. Those 3 months were her in a bed at home, in pain, largely miserable. And whilst we could see her and speak to her it was horrific to watch, horrific for her and would have been best avoided with assisted dying.

It's inhumane the way some people have to suffer.