Backing Hughes for a change.

[Blue Mooner]

I've been to-ing and fro-ing over this one for the past few weeks.

I was really angry about the way we blew 2 games in a row at the death the way we did. I ws furius and my kneejerk was 'hughes Out'
However on reflecting in the cool light of the net day i feel the following.

a) It was defensive errors that cost us and top classs defenders shoul not need reminding abou tracking back

b) Stevie I was played out of position but we have really no otions at left mid just now with petrov out. Maybe he should have plyed Garrido at left mid in but he's cominig back from injury and MH learned the hard way about bringing players back too early with Robby.

c) We played some neat footy at ties yesterday but couldn't finish our chances.

d) If we were to sack Hughes this early , who is available and willing to replace him?

e) Isuspect that anyway the owners are not quite as fickle as that cowboy Frank.

f) We cannot fully judge Hughes til he has selected his own men and the ones he selected so far have done well.


So ATM from me it's Hughes to stay at least for the next couple of months or even the end of the season.

All very sensible. But there's a but.

How long would you let this continue before you thought "Oh shit we are going to get relegated, we are going to have to sack Hughes and get someone else in to save us QUICK".

Would you leave it until after 25 games? 30? 35? New manager with 3 games to go?

Or do you just sink down into the water, saluting, singing the dambusters march until there's only bubbles on the surface?

That's assuming a new manager woudl change things with the current squad.

This idea that we're going to get relegated all of a sudden when we are 'still' within touching distance of the top half, means that even those with new managers ie Spurs could say the same thing ie if Spurs are still in relegation trouble do they get rid of Redknapp. If we look like we are going to get relegated with 3 games to go do we then replace the new manager with a new manager ?

If a squad or team isn't good enough then I believe it doesn't matter who the manager is you will go down. Do I think we are the third worst in the division ? No.

Reading went down with Steve Coppell is he a crap manager or a good manager because they look like they may get automatic promotion this year ? Is the Birmingham manager Alex McCleish a good manager or a bad manager, after all he won pots of stuff at Rangers but took Birmingham down and they look like they could get promoted again.

Is it any surprise that the team running away with the Championship is Wolves who have stuck with Mick McCarthy.

Is Steve Bruce a clueless manager because he took Birmingham down or a good one because he kept Wigan up ?

At the end of the day the three worst teams will go down. Of course a manager can influence the relative success of a side but he can't make a bad side a good one. How do most managers improve a poorly performing side ? They get their players and personnell in. Judge Hughes once has had had chance to that. Do I think we are the third worst team in the division, definitely not. Do I think we will be the third worst team when we have strenghthened in January. Definitely not !

Stop panicking and for f*cks sake back the manager because there's one thing that is certain the more we keep this negativity going the more likely it is that results won't pick up and I assume you do want results to pick up ?

 

[Bovril]

All very sensible. But there's a but.

How long would you let this continue before you thought "Oh shit we are going to get relegated, we are going to have to sack Hughes and get someone else in to save us QUICK".

Would you leave it until after 25 games? 30? 35? New manager with 3 games to go?

Or do you just sink down into the water, saluting, singing the dambusters march until there's only bubbles on the surface?

That's assuming a new manager woudl change things with the current squad.

This idea that we're going to get relegated all of a sudden when we are 'still' within touching distance of the top half, means that even those with new managers ie Spurs could say the same thing ie if Spurs are still in relegation trouble do they get rid of Redknapp. If we look like we are going to get relegated with 3 games to go do we then replace the new manager with a new manager ?

If a squad or team isn't good enough then I believe it doesn't matter who the manager is you will go down. Do I think we are the third worst in the division ? No.

Reading went down with Steve Coppell is he a crap manager or a good manager because they look like they may get automatic promotion this year ? Is the Birmingham manager Alex McCleish a good manager or a bad manager, after all he won pots of stuff at Rangers but took Birmingham down and they look like they could get promoted again.

Is it any surprise that the team running away with the Championship is Wolves who have stuck with Mick McCarthy.

Is Steve Bruce a clueless manager because he took Birmingham down or a good one because he kept Wigan up ?

At the end of the day the three worst teams will go down. Of course a manager can influence the relative success of a side but he can't make a bad side a good one. How do most managers improve a poorly performing side ? They get their players and personnell in. Judge Hughes once has had had chance to that. Do I think we are the third worst team in the division, definitely not. Do I think we will be the third worst team when we have strenghthened in January. Definitely not !

Stop panicking and for f*cks sake back the manager because there's one thing that is certain the more we keep this negativity going the more likely it is that results won't pick up and I assume you do want results to pick up ?

Good post mate, pretty much what I was saying on another thread.

 

[steve4666]

Some people bang on about how Hughes has spent 70-80 million since he took over, nearly half of that was spent on Robiniho ( though i doubt it was one of his signings to start with ). We now have a player who seems like he can only be arsed to put the effort in when it suits him, is injured when it suits him, complains about his teamates and manager in the press and would leave tomorrow if Chelsea etc come calling. For the money, Hughes may well have bought 2-3 world class players who would have put a shift in game in - game out. All im saying is lets give the guy a chance to bring his own players in and judge him after that.

 

[BobKowalski]

Of course a manager can influence the relative success of a side but he can't make a bad side a good one. How do most managers improve a poorly performing side ? They get their players and personnell in.

So a top class manager cannot get a limited or 'bad' side to play to its strengths - a bit like Stoke for example or motivate the players to believe that they can in fact win games against more gifted sides or employ tactics that a more gifted side is not comfortable with or coaching set pieces that exploit a perceived weakness in the other team or...well I could go on.

To say that a top class manager cannot deliver an overall product that is greater than the sum of its parts is to ignore what happens in football all the time. Hull (to name but one) are delivering performances that are in excess of the individual talents of the football team and doing so for nearly half a season.

Hughes has done the opposite. He has delivered an end product that is manifestly less than the sum of its parts. That is poor management. The reasons why this is so can be discussed and debated but the result of this poor management cannot be discussed or debated.

18th place in the PL at Christmas.

Stop panicking and for f*cks sake back the manager because there's one thing that is certain the more we keep this negativity going the more likely it is that results won't pick up and I assume you do want results to pick up ?

Hughes has had a lot of backing. 80% voted to retain him what 3 weeks ago? An overwhelming majority in anyones book. There is a sizeable percentage who are still backing him although the only reasons left are variations on the 'he needs his own players' cry which initself is a damning indictment of Hughes management abilities.

 

[BELFAST_BLUE_BOY]

I've been to-ing and fro-ing over this one for the past few weeks.

I was really angry about the way we blew 2 games in a row at the death the way we did. I ws furius and my kneejerk was 'hughes Out'
However on reflecting in the cool light of the net day i feel the following.

a) It was defensive errors that cost us and top classs defenders shoul not need reminding abou tracking back

b) Stevie I was played out of position but we have really no otions at left mid just now with petrov out. Maybe he should have plyed Garrido at left mid in but he's cominig back from injury and MH learned the hard way about bringing players back too early with Robby.

c) We played some neat footy at ties yesterday but couldn't finish our chances.

d) If we were to sack Hughes this early , who is available and willing to replace him?

e) Isuspect that anyway the owners are not quite as fickle as that cowboy Frank.

f) We cannot fully judge Hughes til he has selected his own men and the ones he selected so far have done well.


So ATM from me it's Hughes to stay at least for the next couple of months or even the end of the season.

sums it up for me....give Hughes a chance, top teams dont sack managers when squeaky bum time....need to look long term and have faith, vision and buckets on £££££

 

[Challenger1978]

I've been to-ing and fro-ing over this one for the past few weeks.

I was really angry about the way we blew 2 games in a row at the death the way we did. I ws furius and my kneejerk was 'hughes Out'
However on reflecting in the cool light of the net day i feel the following.

a) It was defensive errors that cost us and top classs defenders shoul not need reminding abou tracking back

b) Stevie I was played out of position but we have really no otions at left mid just now with petrov out. Maybe he should have plyed Garrido at left mid in but he's cominig back from injury and MH learned the hard way about bringing players back too early with Robby.

c) We played some neat footy at ties yesterday but couldn't finish our chances.

d) If we were to sack Hughes this early , who is available and willing to replace him?

e) Isuspect that anyway the owners are not quite as fickle as that cowboy Frank.

f) We cannot fully judge Hughes til he has selected his own men and the ones he selected so far have done well.


So ATM from me it's Hughes to stay at least for the next couple of months or even the end of the season.

sums it up for me....give Hughes a chance, top teams dont sack managers when squeaky bum time....need to look long term and have faith, vision and buckets on £££££

Top teams dont end up in a relegation battle.

 

[Challenger1978]

I've been to-ing and fro-ing over this one for the past few weeks.

I was really angry about the way we blew 2 games in a row at the death the way we did. I ws furius and my kneejerk was 'hughes Out'
However on reflecting in the cool light of the net day i feel the following.

a) It was defensive errors that cost us and top classs defenders shoul not need reminding abou tracking back

b) Stevie I was played out of position but we have really no otions at left mid just now with petrov out. Maybe he should have plyed Garrido at left mid in but he's cominig back from injury and MH learned the hard way about bringing players back too early with Robby.

c) We played some neat footy at ties yesterday but couldn't finish our chances.

d) If we were to sack Hughes this early , who is available and willing to replace him?

e) Isuspect that anyway the owners are not quite as fickle as that cowboy Frank.

f) We cannot fully judge Hughes til he has selected his own men and the ones he selected so far have done well.


So ATM from me it's Hughes to stay at least for the next couple of months or even the end of the season.

sums it up for me....give Hughes a chance, top teams dont sack managers when squeaky bum time....need to look long term and have faith, vision and buckets on £££££

Top teams dont end up in a relegation battle.

 

[mcfcm19]

Im gonna stick my neck out and say give Hughes his chance(least till the end of the season)? Fuck the players off who wont get in line this will send the message out you rather stay in line or you fuck off! No matter what you think of the manager you should play your heart out for are club.The players who aint should be fuckin ashamed and we all know who they are. I can see us heading back to them nightmare days in the nineties and its doing my FUCKING head in!!!!!!!!

 

[Shooter 83]

sums it up for me....give Hughes a chance, top teams dont sack managers when squeaky bum time....need to look long term and have faith, vision and buckets on £££££

Top teams dont end up in a relegation battle.

If we was 5 points better off we would be 8th and still in a relegation battle.

 

[Shooter 83]

Im gonna stick my neck out and say give Hughes his chance(least till the end of the season)? Fuck the players off who wont get in line this will send the message out you rather stay in line or you fuck off! No matter what you think of the manager you should play your heart out for are club.The players who aint should be fuckin ashamed and we all know who they are. I can see us heading back to them nightmare days in the nineties and its doing my FUCKING head in!!!!!!!!

Yh he shown at Blackburn when he puts a team together they finnished 7th 6th and 8th. That team he had out yesterday was more like stuart pearce's team add Benji and Fernandes it was sven's aswell.

 

[biffa]

Some people bang on about how Hughes has spent 70-80 million since he took over, nearly half of that was spent on Robiniho ( though i doubt it was one of his signings to start with ). We now have a player who seems like he can only be arsed to put the effort in when it suits him, is injured when it suits him, complains about his teamates and manager in the press and would leave tomorrow if Chelsea etc come calling. For the money, Hughes may well have bought 2-3 world class players who would have put a shift in game in - game out. All im saying is lets give the guy a chance to bring his own players in and judge him after that.

Take Robiniho's money out he still manage to spend £40m !!!

 

[TFC]

I have to say I've read some fooking excellent posts from both sides of the ledger today.

I was all for the MH appointment, but would be lying if I said my 'Hughesometer' hadn't been swinging back towards neutral over the last few weeks.

I still back the fella as he is the man with the job, and City are bigger than any individual, but its the seeming inability to get the best out of players we know are capable of more that is starting to get worrying.

I think we are all justified in expecting an almost immediate response from the squad once January gets going, there has been so much made of it (and new blood) after all. If he still isn't getting the results after problem areas of the squad are addressed, then I daresay we will have a new manager at the start of next season....

(part of me thinks this may be the case anyway tbh...)

 

[steve4666]

Some people bang on about how Hughes has spent 70-80 million since he took over, nearly half of that was spent on Robiniho ( though i doubt it was one of his signings to start with ). We now have a player who seems like he can only be arsed to put the effort in when it suits him, is injured when it suits him, complains about his teamates and manager in the press and would leave tomorrow if Chelsea etc come calling. For the money, Hughes may well have bought 2-3 world class players who would have put a shift in game in - game out. All im saying is lets give the guy a chance to bring his own players in and judge him after that.

Take Robiniho's money out he still manage to spend £40m !!!

Granted, West Brom have spent 20 odd million, Sunderland the same and Spurs more than that. It takes a lot more than 40 mill to buy success, which is what we all said we were going to do?!

 

[foreverblue]

Some people bang on about how Hughes has spent 70-80 million since he took over, nearly half of that was spent on Robiniho ( though i doubt it was one of his signings to start with ). We now have a player who seems like he can only be arsed to put the effort in when it suits him, is injured when it suits him, complains about his teamates and manager in the press and would leave tomorrow if Chelsea etc come calling. For the money, Hughes may well have bought 2-3 world class players who would have put a shift in game in - game out. All im saying is lets give the guy a chance to bring his own players in and judge him after that.

Take Robiniho's money out he still manage to spend £40m !!!

I am afraid you are wrong. Hughes signings where:

Ben Haim £3m
Kompany £6m
SWP £9m
Zabaleta £6.4m
Glauber Free

= £24.4m

Jo was signed by Thaksins crew for £19m & Robhino by the Arabs at £32.5m = £51.5m

Total Spend = £75.9m which goes to show you should leave the signings to the manager.

 

[biffa]

Take Robiniho's money out he still manage to spend £40m !!!

I am afraid you are wrong. Hughes signings where:

Ben Haim £3m
Kompany £6m
SWP £9m
Zabaleta £6.4m
Glauber Free

= £24.4m

Jo was signed by Thaksins crew for £19m & Robhino by the Arabs at £32.5m = £51.5m

Total Spend = £75.9m which goes to show you should leave the signings to the manager.

I don't think that's going to happen with these lot though is it. We will sign the next Beckham if it means we get the publicity they require.

 

[steve4666]

Some people bang on about how Hughes has spent 70-80 million since he took over, nearly half of that was spent on Robiniho ( though i doubt it was one of his signings to start with ). We now have a player who seems like he can only be arsed to put the effort in when it suits him, is injured when it suits him, complains about his teamates and manager in the press and would leave tomorrow if Chelsea etc come calling. For the money, Hughes may well have bought 2-3 world class players who would have put a shift in game in - game out. All im saying is lets give the guy a chance to bring his own players in and judge him after that.

Take Robiniho's money out he still manage to spend £40m !!!

I am afraid you are wrong. Hughes signings where:

Ben Haim £3m
Kompany £6m
SWP £9m
Zabaleta £6.4m
Glauber Free

= £24.4m

Jo was signed by Thaksins crew for £19m & Robhino by the Arabs at £32.5m = £51.5m

Total Spend = £75.9m which goes to show you should leave the signings to the manager.

I don't think that's going to happen with these lot though is it. We will sign the next Beckham if it means we get the publicity they require.

Hopefully these guys are astute enough to realise that even with their money you cant buy overnight success. the last thing we need at the minute is the likes of Kaka and Messi etc, we need the ones who are gonna get their head down and battle against Hull, Bolton and West Brom. We should look to be a match for Everton and Villa to start with and then invest big time and kick on.

 

[foreverblue]

I am afraid you are wrong. Hughes signings where:

Ben Haim £3m
Kompany £6m
SWP £9m
Zabaleta £6.4m
Glauber Free

= £24.4m

Jo was signed by Thaksins crew for £19m & Robhino by the Arabs at £32.5m = £51.5m

Total Spend = £75.9m which goes to show you should leave the signings to the manager.

I don't think that's going to happen with these lot though is it. We will sign the next Beckham if it means we get the publicity they require.

To be honest I think they will give him free reign to bring in the players he believes will hit the ground running so that we can move up the table. After that we can try and attract better quality players who can take us to the next level.

 

[uwe282828]

not changed my view since the takeover,hughes must be given time.fans need to keep cool.not let this player power thing win.he`s the man in charge he picks the team buys the players.give him time!

 

[Blue Mooner]

Of course a manager can influence the relative success of a side but he can't make a bad side a good one. How do most managers improve a poorly performing side ? They get their players and personnell in.

So a top class manager cannot get a limited or 'bad' side to play to its strengths - a bit like Stoke for example or motivate the players to believe that they can in fact win games against more gifted sides or employ tactics that a more gifted side is not comfortable with or coaching set pieces that exploit a perceived weakness in the other team or...well I could go on.

To say that a top class manager cannot deliver an overall product that is greater than the sum of its parts is to ignore what happens in football all the time. Hull (to name but one) are delivering performances that are in excess of the individual talents of the football team and doing so for nearly half a season.

Yes and the Hull manager was previously sacked by Derby for underperformance - sometimes momentum and luck can go a long way to helping elevate a side above it's status. Look at Reading took the Prem by Storm and then got relegated the next season ! Conversely, a good side can get momentum that manifests itself negatively and underperform - this is where we continually shoot ourselves in the foot - I think some people underestimate the power of positive thought and 'confidence'

[Hughes has done the opposite. He has delivered an end product that is manifestly less than the sum of its parts. That is poor management. The reasons why this is so can be discussed and debated but the result of this poor management cannot be discussed or debated.

18th place in the PL at Christmas.

At times we have played some sumptuous football far better than anything I saw under Sven - a combination of bad refereeing decisions Liverpool, Spurs, Wigan, Middlesbrough, to name but 4 downright bad luck Newcastle, Hul, Everton, West Brom and now the negative pressure that is building that is making Hughes and the players job increasingly difficult

I know it's all ifs and butts however our position could have been significantly better and I don't think these things make Mark Hughes a bad manager.

Stop panicking and for f*cks sake back the manager because there's one thing that is certain the more we keep this negativity going the more likely it is that results won't pick up and I assume you do want results to pick up ?

[Hughes has had a lot of backing. 80% voted to retain him what 3 weeks ago? An overwhelming majority in anyones book. There is a sizeable percentage who are still backing him although the only reasons left are variations on the 'he needs his own players' cry which initself is a damning indictment of Hughes management abilities.

That's great to hear but you were obviously not at West Brom where there was a voiciferous number shouting for Hughes to be sacked. It's not what we need quite honestly.

 

[Citysmith]

A great article in the Daily Mail, see link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...oss-looks-ring-new-year-changes.html?ITO=1490

Basically stating that we as a club need to get behind Hughes. The players are the ones not responding.

It's an article that will fuel some debate. If these so called players are not up for the challenge they should be shipped out. Would be interested in some comments.