Baltimore riots

[Damocles]

Tell you something, Giles, MillionDollar and others really kicked some sh*t out of a lot of you today.


Exceptional work from the rational minded.

Really exceptional.

They made themselves look like total pillocks with a pet issue and not a single shred of rationality beyond "nobody is responsible for their own actions".

I couldn't give a shit either way about the whole thing but their arguments were facile and childish, lacking even the most basic level of critical analysis. I had absolutely no doubt at all that you'd support them

 

[mindmyp's_n_q's]

Tell you something, Giles, MillionDollar and others really kicked some sh*t out of a lot of you today.


Exceptional work from the rational minded.

Really exceptional.

They made themselves look like total pillocks with a pet issue and not a single shred of rationality beyond "nobody is responsible for their own actions".

I couldn't give a shit either way about the whole thing but their arguments were facile and childish, lacking even the most basic level of critical analysis. I had absolutely no doubt at all that you'd support them

I would say that I was on the "other side" in this debate (better than most on here) however I don't see anything that I contributed which could come close to how you describe it above.

 

[Damocles]

Tell you something, Giles, MillionDollar and others really kicked some sh*t out of a lot of you today.


Exceptional work from the rational minded.

Really exceptional.

They made themselves look like total pillocks with a pet issue and not a single shred of rationality beyond "nobody is responsible for their own actions".

I couldn't give a shit either way about the whole thing but their arguments were facile and childish, lacking even the most basic level of critical analysis. I had absolutely no doubt at all that you'd support them

I would say that I was on the "other side" in this debate (better than most on here) however I don't see anything that I contributed which could come close to how you describe it above.

Sorry I was referring to those two specifically rather than any one side of the debate

 

[mindmyp's_n_q's]

They made themselves look like total pillocks with a pet issue and not a single shred of rationality beyond "nobody is responsible for their own actions".

I couldn't give a shit either way about the whole thing but their arguments were facile and childish, lacking even the most basic level of critical analysis. I had absolutely no doubt at all that you'd support them

I would say that I was on the "other side" in this debate (better than most on here) however I don't see anything that I contributed which could come close to how you describe it above.

Sorry I was referring to those two specifically rather than any one side of the debate

Fair point, appreciate the response.

 

[pudge]

Tell you something, Giles, MillionDollar and others really kicked some sh*t out of a lot of you today.


Exceptional work from the rational minded.

Really exceptional.

"Lol"

 

[Bigga]

Tell you something, Giles, MillionDollar and others really kicked some sh*t out of a lot of you today.


Exceptional work from the rational minded.

Really exceptional.

They made themselves look like total pillocks with a pet issue and not a single shred of rationality beyond "nobody is responsible for their own actions".

I couldn't give a shit either way about the whole thing but their arguments were facile and childish, lacking even the most basic level of critical analysis. I had absolutely no doubt at all that you'd support them

You had the responses. You decided to respond to the end result of years of being trodden on by a land that's supposed to be on the side of those downtrodden. A quote made famous that apparently the USA thrives upon:

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.” - Emma Lazarus.

How does it, then, work that the very masses of poor, homeless, tired and wretched of its own people are treated like sh*t for its own existence? You were given the stats and visual proof and yet still found the room to criticise what you don't understand or refuse to.

The USA spends probably a billion dollars or more (a trillion maybe?) on projects on foreign soil with infrastructure and schooling, yet neglects its own the same care. In a place like Baltimore, where 1 in 3 are unemployed crime is a given cos of the American obsession with having money and the perpetual need to 'survive'.

In a place like Ferguson, the police used 50% boosted citation with no extra crimes for that rise, to bring in revenue to the force. That's just based on fines and fine enforcement! This revenue was sourced from the Black community.

Can't pay your bogus fines cos you don't get enough for the job you have or live off welfare? Well, here's another fine for missing the last payment, etc., etc. It's a poverty trap and one you can't appreciate living in this country. What we do see here, is nothing compared to scale of what happens in the 'Greatest Country on Earth' TM and I don't even think that they believe their own bullsh*t with that.

Doubt you will see the point, but hey ho, eh? A pair of Air Jordans is a terrible thing...

By the way, I actually watched a clip of Corden's show where he gave away a pair of Jordans ($150 maybe?) after a small comp and the guy was stoked over it.

Ridiculous to be so amped over a pair of shi*ty shoes, but there you go.

 

[basokla]

As for the posting that stated that billions of dollars have been spent on housing projects? Well, that means nothing, when you allow virtually every corner to hold a liquor store that sells cheap booze and extremely poor schooling systems within the districts.

Liquoir stores are quite common on every street corner in the USA. There are 5 within a mile of my home. No riots though. So not really sure that is a good excuse.

Are you in favor of school choice? In Baltimore, the public school system spends over $15,000 per student per year. I bet many parents would like the option of a voucher in that amount to find a private or alternative school for their child if it was allowed. But it is not (we can debate the reasons why in another thread).

Throw in unaffordable health insurance

There is a program called Medicaid. It's free. And it is actually better than many private health insurance plans in the USA.

below the poverty line existence, you create this kind of cauldron that's been waiting to ignite for ages.

The poverty line is so arbitrary. It really is. It doesn't even consider things such as food stamps. I realize that food stamps aren't cash but it is still a resource.

Poverty + high unemployment= (for the most part) looting.

So how would you explain Appalachia?

I'm sure you are a nice fella Bigga so don't take my counter points too seriously. Cheers!

 

[SWP's back]

Tell you something, Giles, MillionDollar and others really kicked some sh*t out of a lot of you today.


Exceptional work from the rational minded.

Really exceptional.

They made themselves look like total pillocks with a pet issue and not a single shred of rationality beyond "nobody is responsible for their own actions".

I couldn't give a shit either way about the whole thing but their arguments were facile and childish, lacking even the most basic level of critical analysis. I had absolutely no doubt at all that you'd support them

Saved me a job. Cheers.

 

[tonea2003]

Tell you something, Giles, MillionDollar and others really kicked some sh*t out of a lot of you today.


Exceptional work from the rational minded.

Really exceptional.

They made themselves look like total pillocks with a pet issue and not a single shred of rationality beyond "nobody is responsible for their own actions".

I couldn't give a shit either way about the whole thing but their arguments were facile and childish, lacking even the most basic level of critical analysis. I had absolutely no doubt at all that you'd support them

You had the responses. You decided to respond to the end result of years of being trodden on by a land that's supposed to be on the side of those downtrodden. A quote made famous that apparently the USA thrives upon:

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.” - Emma Lazarus.

How does it, then, work that the very masses of poor, homeless, tired and wretched of its own people are treated like sh*t for its own existence? You were given the stats and visual proof and yet still found the room to criticise what you don't understand or refuse to.

The USA spends probably a billion dollars or more (a trillion maybe?) on projects on foreign soil with infrastructure and schooling, yet neglects its own the same care. In a place like Baltimore, where 1 in 3 are unemployed crime is a given cos of the American obsession with having money and the perpetual need to 'survive'.

In a place like Ferguson, the police used 50% boosted citation with no extra crimes for that rise, to bring in revenue to the force. That's just based on fines and fine enforcement! This revenue was sourced from the Black community.

Can't pay your bogus fines cos you don't get enough for the job you have or live off welfare? Well, here's another fine for missing the last payment, etc., etc. It's a poverty trap and one you can't appreciate living in this country. What we do see here, is nothing compared to scale of what happens in the 'Greatest Country on Earth' TM and I don't even think that they believe their own bullsh*t with that.

Doubt you will see the point, but hey ho, eh? A pair of Air Jordans is a terrible thing...

By the way, I actually watched a clip of Corden's show where he gave away a pair of Jordans ($150 maybe?) after a small comp and the guy was stoked over it.

Ridiculous to be so amped over a pair of shi*ty shoes, but there you go.

so basically you are saying its ok for innocent people to get the shit kicked of them and have their businesses trashed
because as you put it the "cauldron that's been waiting to ignite for ages"

you can say the "air jordons" would be from a multi-national etc but there will some one off shops getting done over as well

i get the soci/econmic issues, the police need serious reining in, but that is not a justification for the above

 

[TangerineSteve17]

Whole bunch of fuck-the-consequences nihilists. Dumb and desperate.

 

[TCIB]

Quilted bog roll Tonea, free jordans and tripple quilted bog roll.
I would burn it all down for this intoxicating mix of stuff to, i know you would also :-D

 

[tonea2003]

Quilted bog roll Tonea, free jordans and tripple quilted bog roll.
I would burn it all down for this intoxicating mix of stuff to, i know you would also :-D

well if its triple quited... who wouldn't, silly me

 

[mrbelfry]

It's possible for events to have more than one cause. When we all shout at each other from opposite trenches the truth is probably close to the middle. It's weird to think that America was segregated until recent history. It's easier to change laws than culture and communities

 

[mindmyp's_n_q's]

Freddie Gray: Baltimore police to face criminal charges

Baltimore's top prosecutor says she plans to file criminal charges against six officers in the case of Freddie Gray who died in police custody.
State prosecutor Marilyn Mosby said the death of the 25-year-old black man was a homicide, and his arrest was illegal.
The charges range from second-degree murder to assault. Protesters cheered as she made the announcement.
Gray suffered fatal spinal injuries while in custody, sparking protests that turned violent.
"The findings of our comprehensive, thorough, and independent investigation coupled with the medical examiner's determination was a homicide... has led us to believe that we have probable cause to file criminal charges," Mrs Mosby told a news conference.
She said Mr Gray died as a result of injuries suffered while he was shackled inside a Baltimore police van, but not restrained by a seat belt - as he was legally required to be.
It was unclear whether the six officers, including a lieutenant and a sergeant, are in custody. The officers were suspended after Gray's death.
The driver of the van, Caesar Goodson, 45, faces the most serious charge, second-degree murder. The other officers face charges including involuntary manslaughter, assault and misconduct.
"To the people of Baltimore and the demonstrators across America, I heard your call for 'no justice, no peace'. Your peace is sincerely needed, as I work to deliver justice on behalf of this young man." Mrs Mosby said.
The police union defended the officers and said they acted "diligently". The union called for an independent prosecutor, something Mosby said was not needed.

 

[Damocles]

Freddie Gray: Baltimore police to face criminal charges

Baltimore's top prosecutor says she plans to file criminal charges against six officers in the case of Freddie Gray who died in police custody.
State prosecutor Marilyn Mosby said the death of the 25-year-old black man was a homicide, and his arrest was illegal.
The charges range from second-degree murder to assault. Protesters cheered as she made the announcement.
Gray suffered fatal spinal injuries while in custody, sparking protests that turned violent.
"The findings of our comprehensive, thorough, and independent investigation coupled with the medical examiner's determination was a homicide... has led us to believe that we have probable cause to file criminal charges," Mrs Mosby told a news conference.
She said Mr Gray died as a result of injuries suffered while he was shackled inside a Baltimore police van, but not restrained by a seat belt - as he was legally required to be.
It was unclear whether the six officers, including a lieutenant and a sergeant, are in custody. The officers were suspended after Gray's death.
The driver of the van, Caesar Goodson, 45, faces the most serious charge, second-degree murder. The other officers face charges including involuntary manslaughter, assault and misconduct.
"To the people of Baltimore and the demonstrators across America, I heard your call for 'no justice, no peace'. Your peace is sincerely needed, as I work to deliver justice on behalf of this young man." Mrs Mosby said.
The police union defended the officers and said they acted "diligently". The union called for an independent prosecutor, something Mosby said was not needed.

Was the only real choice that could have been made. These people are going down no matter what the truth is, and political careers will be built on the back of it.

 

[Bigga]

Freddie Gray: Baltimore police to face criminal charges

Baltimore's top prosecutor says she plans to file criminal charges against six officers in the case of Freddie Gray who died in police custody.
State prosecutor Marilyn Mosby said the death of the 25-year-old black man was a homicide, and his arrest was illegal.
The charges range from second-degree murder to assault. Protesters cheered as she made the announcement.
Gray suffered fatal spinal injuries while in custody, sparking protests that turned violent.
"The findings of our comprehensive, thorough, and independent investigation coupled with the medical examiner's determination was a homicide... has led us to believe that we have probable cause to file criminal charges," Mrs Mosby told a news conference.
She said Mr Gray died as a result of injuries suffered while he was shackled inside a Baltimore police van, but not restrained by a seat belt - as he was legally required to be.
It was unclear whether the six officers, including a lieutenant and a sergeant, are in custody. The officers were suspended after Gray's death.
The driver of the van, Caesar Goodson, 45, faces the most serious charge, second-degree murder. The other officers face charges including involuntary manslaughter, assault and misconduct.
"To the people of Baltimore and the demonstrators across America, I heard your call for 'no justice, no peace'. Your peace is sincerely needed, as I work to deliver justice on behalf of this young man." Mrs Mosby said.
The police union defended the officers and said they acted "diligently". The union called for an independent prosecutor, something Mosby said was not needed.

Was the only real choice that could have been made. These people are going down no matter what the truth is, and political careers will be built on the back of it.

"No matter what the truth is"??

Do you doubt that the police brutality of driving arrestees violently on the streets without seat belts ever happened...?? Cos it's been happening for about 10 years. These people have finally been charged, in light of the recent violence against Black suspects and arrestees.

Had there not been the spotlight on this situation, I doubt there would have been ANY charges of homicide served.

 

[Damocles]

Was the only real choice that could have been made. These people are going down no matter what the truth is, and political careers will be built on the back of it.

"No matter what the truth is"??

Do you doubt that the police brutality of driving arrestees violently on the streets without seat belts ever happened...?? Cos it's been happening for about 10 years. These people have finally been charged, in light of the recent violence against Black suspects and arrestees.

Had there not been the spotlight on this situation, I doubt there would have been ANY charges of homicide served.

I believe that you have absolutely no idea what happened and neither do I as full evidence isn't yet in the public realm, but the whos, whats and whys aren't going to matter in this specific case because as you mentioned "it's happened for 10 years". So these people whether guilty or innocent will be found guilty.

Funnily, if I were to refer as black gangbanger as "these people have been doing this uncontrolled for years" I have no doubt that I'd be verbally castrated.

Do you know what the funny thing is about all of this? You're a racist. I'm just not sure that you've realised it. When I see this case, I see it as a case of probable police brutality against a man. When you see it, you see it as probable police brutality against a black man. There's a key difference between those two viewpoints both in terms of treatment and arguing positions.

I personally don't care whether he's black or white. Because that's a complete non-issue and the merits of the case should stand on the facts of the case as they do with all other cases. Many of the rioters and supporters feel that the colour of his skin is an important point to make and they want vengeance for acts committed by totally different people against those of the same skin colour as them - something you have literally just alluded to. Perhaps racist was the wrong term for it but I can't currently think of a better one - I don't believe that you or they see black people as superior to others but I do think that your logic is different if it was a white or a black person involved on either end. More like a racial hypocrite than racist but even that doesn't really say what I want to say. You're smart enough though to see what I'm pointing at without getting into semantics.

And this really is my BIG HUGE MASSIVE FUCKING ENORMOUS problem with all of these "X kills Y" race problems in the US. Both sides are pointing to race as an involved factor rather than ignoring it which in turn leads to more racial stereotyping, more disillusionment amongst the community and less equality. Because when a white cop kills a black kid in a fuckup, it is no longer just a fuckup but now a racially motivated fuckup during which apparently destruction of private property is a perfectly legitimate and moral reaction to.

There are some people who are so racially obsessed in the States that there is no chance of equality purely due to their obsessive nature on race. There's no country in the world like it in terms of race relations.

 

[Lucky13]

If the Officers are found guilty , will the looters give back all the goods they nicked in the name of justice?

 

[johnny on the spot]

Which isn't to say he deserved to die the way he did, but he had serious form and the BPD were gunning for the lad.

 

[Bigga]

Was the only real choice that could have been made. These people are going down no matter what the truth is, and political careers will be built on the back of it.

"No matter what the truth is"??

Do you doubt that the police brutality of driving arrestees violently on the streets without seat belts ever happened...?? Cos it's been happening for about 10 years. These people have finally been charged, in light of the recent violence against Black suspects and arrestees.

Had there not been the spotlight on this situation, I doubt there would have been ANY charges of homicide served.

I believe that you have absolutely no idea what happened and neither do I as full evidence isn't yet in the public realm, but the whos, whats and whys aren't going to matter in this specific case because as you mentioned "it's happened for 10 years". So these people whether guilty or innocent will be found guilty.

Funnily, if I were to refer as black gangbanger as "these people have been doing this uncontrolled for years" I have no doubt that I'd be verbally castrated.

Do you know what the funny thing is about all of this? You're a racist. I'm just not sure that you've realised it. When I see this case, I see it as a case of probable police brutality against a man. When you see it, you see it as probable police brutality against a black man. There's a key difference between those two viewpoints both in terms of treatment and arguing positions.

I personally don't care whether he's black or white. Because that's a complete non-issue and the merits of the case should stand on the facts of the case as they do with all other cases. Many of the rioters and supporters feel that the colour of his skin is an important point to make and they want vengeance for acts committed by totally different people against those of the same skin colour as them - something you have literally just alluded to. Perhaps racist was the wrong term for it but I can't currently think of a better one - I don't believe that you or they see black people as superior to others but I do think that your logic is different if it was a white or a black person involved on either end. More like a racial hypocrite than racist but even that doesn't really say what I want to say. You're smart enough though to see what I'm pointing at without getting into semantics.

And this really is my BIG HUGE MASSIVE FUCKING ENORMOUS problem with all of these "X kills Y" race problems in the US. Both sides are pointing to race as an involved factor rather than ignoring it which in turn leads to more racial stereotyping, more disillusionment amongst the community and less equality. Because when a white cop kills a black kid in a fuckup, it is no longer just a fuckup but now a racially motivated fuckup during which apparently destruction of private property is a perfectly legitimate and moral reaction to.

There are some people who are so racially obsessed in the States that there is no chance of equality purely due to their obsessive nature on race. There's no country in the world like it in terms of race relations.

I want to laugh, physically laugh, at where you think I stand on the matter!

Not that you're privvy to every post I've ever written, but your assumption is so far off point it's ridiculous. If you bothered to digest what I said in the last few pages, I didn't condone the violence and looting. I also said that violence against White people was attacking their own community.

Let me ask you, when a White policeman shoots a a Black person and it makes the news, what goes through any White cop's head to continue the aggressive actions of his predecessor and not learn from it? That's no longer a 'fuckup', but just not giving a fuck. These things didn't happen on the same day, this has been a 6 month spread, in the spotlight, at least.

What are the odds that if this cop was faced by a Black man, the outcome would be different...?
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhJKyK6VqDI[/video]

Well, believe it or not, yes, race plays a part of life in the States. You can't get away from it cos of the impact of the Slave Trade. That's a fact, not an excuse. Nobody seeks to play the 'race card' cos its ingrained into the very fabric of society.

What's the difference when Bush can introduce a Black face into the highest office and it's 'progressive' and when Obama does the same it's 'overboard'? This is a snapshot recall of the amount of abuse I've seen about the administration and I've sanitised what I've read. Race perception plays a part.

You can think I'm racist all you want. If there was a situation that was heavily stacking against a demographic that just wanted to be treated equally and fairly, I would side on their side.

If that make me whatever you want it to, then so be it.