Barca vs Arsenal

[jellert]

Well in a football match it's important to shoot the ball in the net..........

Great, but you've missed the point completely... the comparisions are to the "best footballer" ever not the "most prolific goalscorer" ever.

Messi is everything you want in a football player......

 

[Northern3]

I remember watching Pele when I was younger more recently Maradona,Zidane and even more recently Ronaldinho,Ronaldo and Messi is up there with the best of them.I know it's all about opinions but how any one can compare Rooney is quite amazing hes not on the same level.

 

[The Fixer]

Well in a football match it's important to shoot the ball in the net..........

Great, but you've missed the point completely... the comparisions are to the "best footballer" ever not the "most prolific goalscorer" ever.

Id say "best footballer" is not one who has the best trick for me it's the effect he has on football matches.

 

[GStar]

maybe that Messi also does things with a football that ronaldinho cant even dream of... for example consistently scoring three goals per game or scoring 4 in champions. the fact that they play different styles doesnt make Dinho better.

Maybe the guy can speak for himself?

Haha GStar you are starting to sound like a religious nut in the face over whelming evidence now......Messi is God, deal with it!!!

Good for you, thats your opinion... i'll have mine. Perhaps you should learn to deal with the fact people have differnet opinions.

Its a fact of life. Very basic stuff.

 

[jellert]

Great, but you've missed the point completely... the comparisions are to the "best footballer" ever not the "most prolific goalscorer" ever.

Id say "best footballer" is not one who has the best trick for me it's the effect he has on football matches.

Yes...... Messi has just the technique like Ronaldinho but he goes to goal.. Ronaldhinho stands still and waits for a pass to give.....

 

[GStar]

Great, but you've missed the point completely... the comparisions are to the "best footballer" ever not the "most prolific goalscorer" ever.

Id say "best footballer" is not one who has the best trick for me it's the effect he has on football matches.

Bang on. There quite a few that ahve an effect on a football match in differnet ways though.

Original Ronaldo would win you games, Casillias/Buffon would win you games, Fabregas/Zidane would would win you games... All three sets in different ways.

For me Ronaldinho in his pomp had great vision, scored all types of goals, couldnt be touched with the ball at his feet, could get past an opponent in more creative and inventive ways than anyone else and was consistent with his creativity.

Its that all round ability of being able to set up a goal, score a goal in open play or set piece, carry the ball past numerous opponents and then to top it off make it look so fluid and ellegent... the frills and extras he had and how natural he made it look.

Thats the kind of player i think qualifies for best, hence me mention of Maradonna and Zidane too.

Other people wont agree, thats fine, but for most of the people wanking over Messi tonight, i bet thats probably the second time they've seen him this season.

 

[Papa Smurf]

maybe that Messi also does things with a football that ronaldinho cant even dream of... for example consistently scoring three goals per game or scoring 4 in champions. the fact that they play different styles doesnt make Dinho better.

Maybe the guy can speak for himself?

And maybe i think you were talking bollocks so I decided to comment on it, maybe it is a forum and people like to comment on other people's opinion, and maybe I thought you were a smart person that could have a debate, I was obviously wrong.

If you don't like that then you should have private conversation that way no one will comment, just a friendly suggestion. Carry on.

 

[GStar]

Id say "best footballer" is not one who has the best trick for me it's the effect he has on football matches.

Yes...... Messi has just the technique like Ronaldinho but he goes to goal.. Ronaldhinho stands still and waits for a pass to give.....

I dont really want to get into it with you, as i can see you replying with more vague and most likely pointless one liners.

However... Messi is quite one dimensional... he runs at you and reacts quicker than you do, he doesnt need a plan b as no one has been able to stop his plan A. Theres no tricks, no deviancy its a chance of direction so quick that hes past you before you react.

Ronaldinho could beat his man 10 times in a game and each time it would be different, be it with agility, deviation, power etc

To say Messi has the same technique as Ronaldinho who waits for a pass i'd have to ask how long you've been watching football?<br /><br />-- Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:00 pm --<br /><br />

And maybe i think you were talking bollocks so I decided to comment on it, maybe it is a forum and people like to comment on other people's opinion, and maybe I thought you were a smart person that could have a debate, I was obviously wrong.

If you don't like that then you should have private conversation that way no one will comment, just a friendly suggestion. Carry on.

You started you post off in a patronising, sarcastic tone... the same way you've finished this.

If you want to debate then fine, but dont act like a dick... i'm quite aware im in the minority here, and most prefer one liners and smarmy arsey abuse so there no point me engaging with abuse is there? They're not looking for a debate, they're looking to score points.

 

[robbieh]

Things I noticed.

Busquets and Keita are the two CMs Guardiola prefers. Thats why we may get Yaya. He's not as good as either of them but may be better suited to the English game.

Barca close people down like nobodies business.

Pedro is a great player.

There's maybe only one man who can stop them and that is Mourinho. If he does he will deserve all the plaudits he so much wants, as Barca are a great team.

And finally I watch Barca alot and Messi never fails to provide the goods. Comparisons with Rooney are frankly embarrassing.

 

[salfordblue-tony2]

Messi`s not even the best footballer from argentina, he's never done it in the premiership ?

KING CARLOS !

 

[Project]

There's maybe only one man who can stop them and that is Mourinho. If he does he will deserve all the plaudits he so much wants, as Barca are a great team.

He failed to in the group games against Barcelona. They were more one sided than the first leg against Arsenal. Frankly if Mourinho pulled it off it would be as close to a miracle in football as you can get.

 

[Papa Smurf]

Yes...... Messi has just the technique like Ronaldinho but he goes to goal.. Ronaldhinho stands still and waits for a pass to give.....

I dont really want to get into it with you, as i can see you replying with more vague and most likely pointless one liners.

However... Messi is quite one dimensional... he runs at you and reacts quicker than you do, he doesnt need a plan b as no one has been able to stop his plan A. Theres no tricks, no deviancy its a chance of direction so quick that hes past you before you react.

Ronaldinho could beat his man 10 times in a game and each time it would be different, be it with agility, deviation, power etc

To say Messi has the same technique as Ronaldinho who waits for a pass i'd have to ask how long you've been watching football?

-- Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:00 pm --

And maybe i think you were talking bollocks so I decided to comment on it, maybe it is a forum and people like to comment on other people's opinion, and maybe I thought you were a smart person that could have a debate, I was obviously wrong.

If you don't like that then you should have private conversation that way no one will comment, just a friendly suggestion. Carry on.

You started you post off in a patronising, sarcastic tone... the same way you've finished this.

If you want to debate then fine, but dont act like a dick... i'm quite aware im in the minority here, and most prefer one liners and smarmy arsey abuse so there no point me engaging with abuse is there? They're not looking for a debate, they're looking to score points.

If i sounded patronising I didnt mean to, the use of the word "maybe" was purely because I never assume to know what another person means, thats just the way I am.

the problem with this forums is that some times the tone of a comment is free to be interpreted by people as a go at someone. you even say yourself I "sounded" sarcastic when you actually just read that cause you wanted to. I gotta admit your reply to my first comment did piss me off since you decided to completely ignore a valid point by stating something quite ridiculous in a forum.

That said I'm sorry but I still think your point is bollocks, no by far since Dinho was amazing but if you actually want to debate it I'm game. I actually thought I had a fair point to my comment.

 

[robbieh]

There's maybe only one man who can stop them and that is Mourinho. If he does he will deserve all the plaudits he so much wants, as Barca are a great team.

He failed to in the group games against Barcelona. They were more one sided than the first leg against Arsenal. Frankly if Mourinho pulled it off it would be as close to a miracle in football as you can get.

I saw that game and Inter were completely outplayed and Mourinho knew it.

But I reckon we will see a closer game this time.

Having said all that I don't want him at City.

 

[M9 Blue]

Can't wait to see what stunts jose pulls to try and get through this one!

 

[johnny on the spot]

You've got to love the Arsenal fans on 606. Moaning, fickle, ungrateful bastards.

 

[depps]

maybe that Messi also does things with a football that ronaldinho cant even dream of... for example consistently scoring three goals per game or scoring 4 in champions. the fact that they play different styles doesnt make Dinho better.

Maybe the guy can speak for himself?

Haha GStar you are starting to sound like a religious nut in the face over whelming evidence now......Messi is God, deal with it!!!

Good for you, thats your opinion... i'll have mine. Perhaps you should learn to deal with the fact people have differnet opinions.

Its a fact of life. Very basic stuff.

Relax GStar my comment was made in jest in reference to the god thread in off topic where you are criticising religious people for ignoring the evidence before them.

I would actually agree with you that Messi isn't the greatest footballer ever but not for the reasons that you have given. The reasons Pele and Maradona are regarded as the greatest is because of their achievements in the game not just their skills. Its too hard to compare the skills of people form different eras in the game effectively. Your comments about Ronaldinho having better technique than Messi may be true, but the same would also be true of Rivaldho and even someone like Djalminha who never won much at all.

'Greatness' though is not simply about skills or ability it is about achievements and if Messi was to lead Argentina to World Cup glory this summer after helping Barcelona to become the first team in 20 years to win back to back European Cups he would in my opinion be up their alongside Maradona and Pele and considering the fact that he is still only 22 will most likely surpass them at some stage

 

[GStar]

Apologies if i read you're post in the wrong tone, its a drawback of this form of communication i guess...

maybe that Messi also does things with a football that ronaldinho cant even dream of... for example consistently scoring three goals per game or scoring 4 in champions. the fact that they play different styles doesnt make Dinho better.

Anyway, to your post.

I don't know how consistently he scores 3/4 a game, i presume its more than Ronaldinho did? I've also no idea on thier assist stats but i'd argue that would paly a factor too.

My main point, as i mentioned above, is the Ronaldinho was not only capable but excelled at almost every attacking trait going. On top of that his control over a football both on the ground and manipulating it in the air was of a level i've never seen before.

He looked so natural with the ball whilst passing opponents no matter how he was controlling the ball or where it was... in comparison, i think Messi is one dimensional in his approach, he'll beat you as often as ROnaldinho but he'll do it the same time every time.

For me, his ability to make the extrodinary look natural is what draws me to him, along with his ability to affect a game. IMO the arguement would be; "Is Messi's speed and agility so much better than everyone else that it surpasses the all round ability of Ronaldinho/Zidane/Maradonna et al"?

But that may not be how others see it.<br /><br />-- Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:27 pm --<br /><br />

Relax GStar my comment was made in jest in reference to the god thread in off topic where you are criticising religious people for ignoring the evidence before them.

I would actually agree with you that Messi isn't the greatest footballer ever but not for the reasons that you have given. The reasons Pele and Maradona are regarded as the greatest is because of their achievements in the game not just their skills. Its too hard to compare the skills of people form different eras in the game effectively. Your comments about Ronaldinho having better technique than Messi may be true, but the same would also be true of Rivaldho and even someone like Djalminha who never won much at all.

'Greatness' though is not simply about skills or ability it is about achievements and if Messi was to lead Argentina to World Cup glory this summer after helping Barcelona to become the first team in 20 years to win back to back European Cups he would in my opinion be up their alongside Maradona and Pele and considering the fact that he is still only 22 will most likely surpass them at some stage

Good points, and again apologies... i'm obviously not great at sensing tone on the internet ;)

Its interesting that people do consider the greats "great" because of thier achievement in almost one off tournaments... I'd argue that a poor way to judge a player and it should be done on a more widespread basis. But then that would also hinder my arguement for Ronaldinho as after 3/4 years being considered the best he dropped big style (considering).

The way i see it, if you put a guy with reactions as quick as Messi against him... his threat would be nullified. Its the same time and again, but people cant react to it quick enough. Its not that he is more skillfull with a football than anyone else but he can move the ball quicker than anyone else.

But thats just me.

 

[depps]

Apologies if i read you're post in the wrong tone, its a drawback of this form of communication i guess...

maybe that Messi also does things with a football that ronaldinho cant even dream of... for example consistently scoring three goals per game or scoring 4 in champions. the fact that they play different styles doesnt make Dinho better.

Anyway, to your post.

I don't know how consistently he scores 3/4 a game, i presume its more than Ronaldinho did? I've also no idea on thier assist stats but i'd argue that would paly a factor too.

My main point, as i mentioned above, is the Ronaldinho was not only capable but excelled at almost every attacking trait going. On top of that his control over a football both on the ground and manipulating it in the air was of a level i've never seen before.

He looked so natural with the ball whilst passing opponents no matter how he was controlling the ball or where it was... in comparison, i think Messi is one dimensional in his approach, he'll beat you as often as ROnaldinho but he'll do it the same time every time.

For me, his ability to make the extrodinary look natural is what draws me to him, along with his ability to affect a game. IMO the arguement would be; "Is Messi's speed and agility so much better than everyone else that it surpasses the all round ability of Ronaldinho/Zidane/Maradonna et al"?

But that may not be how others see it.

-- Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:27 pm --

Relax GStar my comment was made in jest in reference to the god thread in off topic where you are criticising religious people for ignoring the evidence before them.

I would actually agree with you that Messi isn't the greatest footballer ever but not for the reasons that you have given. The reasons Pele and Maradona are regarded as the greatest is because of their achievements in the game not just their skills. Its too hard to compare the skills of people form different eras in the game effectively. Your comments about Ronaldinho having better technique than Messi may be true, but the same would also be true of Rivaldho and even someone like Djalminha who never won much at all.

'Greatness' though is not simply about skills or ability it is about achievements and if Messi was to lead Argentina to World Cup glory this summer after helping Barcelona to become the first team in 20 years to win back to back European Cups he would in my opinion be up their alongside Maradona and Pele and considering the fact that he is still only 22 will most likely surpass them at some stage

Good points, and again apologies... i'm obviously not great at sensing tone on the internet ;)

Its interesting that people do consider the greats "great" because of thier achievement in almost one off tournaments... I'd argue that a poor way to judge a player and it should be done on a more widespread basis. But then that would also hinder my arguement for Ronaldinho as after 3/4 years being considered the best he dropped big style (considering).

The way i see it, if you put a guy with reactions as quick as Messi against him... his threat would be nullified. Its the same time and again, but people cant react to it quick enough. Its not that he is more skillfull with a football than anyone else but he can move the ball quicker than anyone else.

But thats just me.

Its not just one of tournaments though, if that was the case then someone like Toto Schillaci would be regarded as a great. Maradona not only won the world cup with Argentia he also achieved a lot at club level. Boca Juniors spent £1mill on him which was a crazy sum for Argentinian football at the time and he then went to Barcelona for a world record fee before then winning 2 leagues and a UEFA Cup at Napoli who had never before won anything and haven't again since.
Pele has 3 world cup wins and 2 Copa Libretedores and a shit load of state championships with Santos, once again quite a small and unfashionable club, as well as breaking numerous goalscoring records.

Its their sustained success across their careers that makes them 'great' not any one of those individual achievements

 

[Stuart]

Barca 4 Arsenal 1 .

*cough , cough*