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Bayern Munich @ Home
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shadygiz
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Re: City Vs Bayern Munich Pre Match Thread
yup 6-0 final score
top game by the lads
ambrose MotM
Samsdad said:IanBishopsHaircut said:shadygiz said:1/2 time
city youth 3 - bayern youth 0
good half by the lads
ambrose is running bayern ragged
4-0 now...maybe we should just let our youth team loose tonight...give the first team a night off ;-)
6-0 now class 6th goal
yup 6-0 final score
top game by the lads
ambrose MotM
TueartsOHK
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Re: City Vs Bayern Munich Pre Match Thread
That was a team playing with real confidence. Bayern were looked inferior in every part of the park.
shadygiz said:Samsdad said:IanBishopsHaircut said:4-0 now...maybe we should just let our youth team loose tonight...give the first team a night off ;-)
6-0 now class 6th goal
yup 6-0 final score
top game by the lads
ambrose MotM
That was a team playing with real confidence. Bayern were looked inferior in every part of the park.
TueartsOHK
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Re: City Vs Bayern Munich Pre Match Thread
Just watching the Moscow game on Sky (just kicked off) and yet again there are supporters in the stadium. What a joke
Just watching the Moscow game on Sky (just kicked off) and yet again there are supporters in the stadium. What a joke
bayern fan
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Re: City Vs Bayern Munich Pre Match Thread
As i said, competing financially takes several generations of good teams and years of good management...one good team and 3 or 4 very good years are not enough and deservedly so, because Real, Barca and Bayern have been one of the biggest clubs for several decades now.
Some of your (i mean all city fans and especially those with the "no team is able to join the elite") arguments are valid, but some are really quite nonsense.
Let me just take 2 of em...
1.) "There is a elite of Real, Bayern, Barca (and Chelsea) and without investors, no club will be able to join them"
-> Only 4, 5 years ago nearly every (non-english) fan feared, that the cl will become boring, because every year 2-4 out of the 4 cl semifinalists will be premier league teams. Real and Bayern weren´t able to achieve good results in the cl for almost a decade (Bayern from 2001 to 2009, Real 2002 to 2012 i think) and also Barcas status as a "elite club" developed as Ronaldinho and Co. popped up and Guardiola formed one of the best teams ever.
NO ONE would have called Real/Bayern the european elite between 2002 and 2009, people rather would have called Man. United, Ac Milan or Liverpool to be the champs for years to come.
The history of football clearly shows, that almost all those "omg team A will dominate for sooo many years" comments turned out to be false. Even recent teams, that CAN be considered as the greatest teams ever (spanish national team, Barca 2009-2011) reached the ultimate point of failure and their performance dropped significantly.
I really think that in 4 or 5 years there will be the same comments about a untouchable elite, the difference will be, that the teams will probably be different. I fear Bayern will drop out of the elite once Ribéry, Robben, Schweinsteiger and Lahm retire, and Real/Barca without Ronaldo/Messi won´t be the same either.
2.) "They had to luck to be in the champions league from the start and therefore get so much money, that none-cl teams have no chance to compete" / "Money is the most important aspect to be successfull"
-> It´s quite the same as my answer to the first argument. Teams like Ac Milan, Inter, Liverpool, Man. United or even Porto used to be very successfull for several years in the cl. Based on your logic, they would have gathered so much money, that they are practically invincible. Yet, none of these teams can be seen as a top 8 european team today.
And in my opinion, the last 10-15 years of european football can rather be seen as an evidence, that only having much money won´t guarantee you any kind of success.
- Look at Reals "success" from 2002 to 2012? They always used to spend so much money, yet they failed to pass the cl quarterfinals on a yearly schedule
- Look at Porto/Atl. Madrid/Dortmund: There are always "small" clubs with significantly less money than the big players that manage to reach finals or even win the cup. And they are not only able to play a good role for one season, but for several seasons. As i admitted...they are not capable to compete with the big players financially yet...but those big clubs also didn´t gather all their money with just one good team and 2 or 3 successfull years
- Look at the PL teams success in the last 2 or 3 years: The premier league is by far the league with the most money spent, but the results of the english teams in the cl and el in the past 2 or 3 years were quite disappointing. Teams like Man City, PSG or Chelsea (for several years) failed to deliver on the european stage although they spent more money than any club else.
- Look at Barca 09-11: Barca in their recent prime was a team that was primarly based on home grown talents and some reasonable expensive transfer.
- Look at Bayern 09-14: Bayern also isn´t able to compete financially with the likes of Real or PSG. Our biggest transfer fee to date ist still 40 mio€ for Martinez, followed by ~36 for Götze and than ~25-30 for Benatia/Robben/Thiago.
I don´t want to sound arrogant but basically Bayern is the perfect example how you can develop from a "best 16 team" (and we were nothing more than that between 2001 and 2009) to a constant member of the european elite WITHOUT spending more money than most of the competitors. Our loss for transfers between the seasons 08/09 and 14/15 is just ~140 million. Without wanting to gather statistics i believe i could find 10-15 clubs in europe that spent more money on transfers since 08/09.
To sum it up...in my opinion your arguments sound like the key to constant success in the champions league are like "80% money + 20% good work and management" whereas my opionion would rather be "~25% money, ~75% good work/management".
KnaresboroughBlue said:bayern fan said:Clubs like Atl. Madrid or Borussia Dortmund nevertheless show, that you can manage to win the CL without belonging to the elite. Although both clubs can´t compete financially with top clubs yet and therefore lose some players, they manage to outshine clubs in the cl, that spend much more money. And becoming a club that financially can compete with the elite takes some years more and a few generations of good teams.
You make it sound like Real, Bayern and Co. got some millions in the 1970s and therefore it is an undeniable fact, that no one can compete with them today.
The problem is that even when clubs like Dortmund or Athletico Madrid do manage to produce a team that can compete, they are only able to do so for a year or so before they are stripped of their assets by wealthier clubs. This stops them being able to realistically compete for any sustained period. All they can do is take the money and hope it buys them players that enable them to compete before they are once again plundered. Sooner or later they will make a few bad buys and fade away again.
I am extremely grateful that City have had the chance to compete through our owner's funding. It is unlikely that we would have been able to realistically challenge for major honours through any other means. I wouldn't want to take away that opportunity for fans of other clubs just so the few can protect their feathered nests (even if we are one of the few). Sadly that's what FFP has done.
As i said, competing financially takes several generations of good teams and years of good management...one good team and 3 or 4 very good years are not enough and deservedly so, because Real, Barca and Bayern have been one of the biggest clubs for several decades now.
Some of your (i mean all city fans and especially those with the "no team is able to join the elite") arguments are valid, but some are really quite nonsense.
Let me just take 2 of em...
1.) "There is a elite of Real, Bayern, Barca (and Chelsea) and without investors, no club will be able to join them"
-> Only 4, 5 years ago nearly every (non-english) fan feared, that the cl will become boring, because every year 2-4 out of the 4 cl semifinalists will be premier league teams. Real and Bayern weren´t able to achieve good results in the cl for almost a decade (Bayern from 2001 to 2009, Real 2002 to 2012 i think) and also Barcas status as a "elite club" developed as Ronaldinho and Co. popped up and Guardiola formed one of the best teams ever.
NO ONE would have called Real/Bayern the european elite between 2002 and 2009, people rather would have called Man. United, Ac Milan or Liverpool to be the champs for years to come.
The history of football clearly shows, that almost all those "omg team A will dominate for sooo many years" comments turned out to be false. Even recent teams, that CAN be considered as the greatest teams ever (spanish national team, Barca 2009-2011) reached the ultimate point of failure and their performance dropped significantly.
I really think that in 4 or 5 years there will be the same comments about a untouchable elite, the difference will be, that the teams will probably be different. I fear Bayern will drop out of the elite once Ribéry, Robben, Schweinsteiger and Lahm retire, and Real/Barca without Ronaldo/Messi won´t be the same either.
2.) "They had to luck to be in the champions league from the start and therefore get so much money, that none-cl teams have no chance to compete" / "Money is the most important aspect to be successfull"
-> It´s quite the same as my answer to the first argument. Teams like Ac Milan, Inter, Liverpool, Man. United or even Porto used to be very successfull for several years in the cl. Based on your logic, they would have gathered so much money, that they are practically invincible. Yet, none of these teams can be seen as a top 8 european team today.
And in my opinion, the last 10-15 years of european football can rather be seen as an evidence, that only having much money won´t guarantee you any kind of success.
- Look at Reals "success" from 2002 to 2012? They always used to spend so much money, yet they failed to pass the cl quarterfinals on a yearly schedule
- Look at Porto/Atl. Madrid/Dortmund: There are always "small" clubs with significantly less money than the big players that manage to reach finals or even win the cup. And they are not only able to play a good role for one season, but for several seasons. As i admitted...they are not capable to compete with the big players financially yet...but those big clubs also didn´t gather all their money with just one good team and 2 or 3 successfull years
- Look at the PL teams success in the last 2 or 3 years: The premier league is by far the league with the most money spent, but the results of the english teams in the cl and el in the past 2 or 3 years were quite disappointing. Teams like Man City, PSG or Chelsea (for several years) failed to deliver on the european stage although they spent more money than any club else.
- Look at Barca 09-11: Barca in their recent prime was a team that was primarly based on home grown talents and some reasonable expensive transfer.
- Look at Bayern 09-14: Bayern also isn´t able to compete financially with the likes of Real or PSG. Our biggest transfer fee to date ist still 40 mio€ for Martinez, followed by ~36 for Götze and than ~25-30 for Benatia/Robben/Thiago.
I don´t want to sound arrogant but basically Bayern is the perfect example how you can develop from a "best 16 team" (and we were nothing more than that between 2001 and 2009) to a constant member of the european elite WITHOUT spending more money than most of the competitors. Our loss for transfers between the seasons 08/09 and 14/15 is just ~140 million. Without wanting to gather statistics i believe i could find 10-15 clubs in europe that spent more money on transfers since 08/09.
To sum it up...in my opinion your arguments sound like the key to constant success in the champions league are like "80% money + 20% good work and management" whereas my opionion would rather be "~25% money, ~75% good work/management".
sam-caddick
Well-Known Member
Re: City Vs Bayern Munich Pre Match Thread
Why not give a youth player a chance like Glendon? I don't see the point in playing players out of position.
Suze9320 said:Mangala in midfield - one website is predicting that.
Why not give a youth player a chance like Glendon? I don't see the point in playing players out of position.
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