Bayern one of only six teams better than us now

[bayern blade]

An interesting thing that several City fans have mentioned is that Bayern attacking them would suit City.
I understand what they mean but we expect City to attack us too which also suits Bayern as we often struggle to break down teams who shut up shop.
We, like City have lightning fast players who love to hit on the break.

This is potentially a fascinating game.

 

[Anonymous]

I appreciate the experts views and really welcome Bayern fans coming on here to put their opinions forward but the fact is that you simply can't predict a one off result on the basis of the general fitness of a club to perform.
Having a great squad and solid support helps (of course), having a fantastic stadium and a good youth system adds to the prospect of success but over 90 minutes just about anyone can beat just about anyone . . that's why the league systems constantly put the best squads at the top but knock-out cup competitions often throw up an odd ball winner.

Fact is that the best team doesn't always win but being the best increases the chances of winning on average. . I think that we're definitely one of the top 5 teams in europe at the moment (fuck that list right off - chelsea especially) but our advantage will only really show in the long run. . . more a case of allowing us to have the strength to compete in the PL while still having a good pop in other competitions.

So, on a one off basis my opinion is that Bayern are good . . very good but they ain't been up against a team as strong as ours in a while and I believe that we'll beat then if we get the bit of luck we deserve.

Added thought is that this is only our first venture in the CL but we ain't a one off side like spuds and whatever happens this year, we'll be back fitter and stronger next year and fitter and stronger again the year after . . and ad on infinitum. . .

 

[Aequitas1987]

They have largely inferior players to us and play in an inferior league than us.

Not really, take away the top four or five in England and the rest are cannon fodder, same as any other league.
As for inferior players you are having a laugh, Ribery, Schweinsteiger, Gomez, Robben, Lahm, Rafinha, Neuer, Badstuber, Müller, Luis Gustavo. City have a great squad but to say ours isn't on the same level is utter crap.

The bundesliga hasn't got four or five teams that would cut our league. Bayern are and have been dominant over the years because it is a poorer league. No matter what you think Robben was not that good in our league, yet storms yours, Boateng simple could not handle our league and often pulled out of tackles, yet again does well in germany. How many of your team are actually better than what we have? Ribery has only played in the poorer leagues he has never done it in a top league over and over. Doubtless he is a good player but i think in his career he has taken the easy option. Gomez is your main.threat but again will he do it against higher quality defenders?
I guess I am talking uttet crap because I do think your players are inferior to ours.

The Inferior league bit you can have for now. I already made a case for it in another thread.

I think the reasoning behind English players winning more glory on club level is fairly straightforward and its because EPL is the #1 league in the world which means for the longest time (until recently the La Liga) all the top players were drawn to play for the big 4 (or big 5 now) in the EPL hence they were able to create European level dominant teams. Add to that the heavily supported theory that both English and German players prefer to play in their home country means that English players had the advantage of playing in/alongside champions league competitive teams.

The Bundesliga on the other hand was a long-term project which is now finally coming into fruition. The strict financial laws on the Bundesliga [no spending that is not earned directly via revenue and restrictions on wage bills] combined with the necessity to have a growing youth academy in every single club in both Budesliga.1 and Bundesliga.2 is now finally showing results at both club level and International level.

Its not quite there yet as you still see clubs like Dortmund and Werder feeding to Madrid in the form of Sahin and Ozil. However, once financial fair play is implemented these same clubs will be able to retain their youth prospects against the European powerhouses and continue to develop and close the gap with Bayern (who is a commercial powerhouse revenue wise).

The results are being shown already with the Bundesliga overtaking the Serie A and closing in on the La Liga (still far far away from EPL) in the coefficients. The German NT continuing to benefit from the talent and I am thinking soon (probably post euro or worst case 2013) a lot of those German players will be winning champions league glory whether its in a Bayern, Dortmund or Madrid Shirt.

Edit* Oh and before people state that sooner or later the youth talent will begin to dry out. Sure its a possibility but this is Germany we are talking about, its like the 3rd and 4th largest European nation (area and population wise) and is considered by many football pundits to have the most accessible football fan base (some ridiculous high % facts about 60-70% of the German population follows the Bundesliga). The youth project/prospect will tap out but this is just the beginning and its going to take a while before that happens, if ever. The foundation that DFB has laid out is tremendous and sooner or later other nations have to copy/implement it as well.

Lets move on to the inferior players bit, how exactly do we compare players who have generally not faced off against one another, played in different leagues etc and predict their ability in the champions league? I think the best way to compare this is to see how much of a 'big game impact' your players have made in the past and/or have done in a tournament setting, i mean that's the fairest way to compare champions league worthiness.

Your two top creative forces are Nasri and Silva, ours are Robben and Ribery. Nasri was a key player for Arsenal but never was their star player in any important champions league fixture. I think his best instance was a brace vs Shaktar or Porto? I forget. In the French National Team he is yet to secure a starting spot or to genuinely make a big impact. Ribery on the other hand has had many standout performances in Europe with Bayern (Nasri had enough opportunities to do the same at Arsenal) and on top of that has been an undisputed star for France for years, was the second best player for France in 2006 World Cup alongside Zidane. Silva has a much better resume than Nasri, he was always the top performer for Valencia in any European competition (better than Villa on many occasions) and had a great start to his international career in Euro 2008, however lately by no fault to his own maybe he has been a fringe bench player for Spain and did not contribute to their WC2010 victory. Robben on the other hand like Ribery has been the undisputed star of the Dutch national team for years, was a star player for Chelsea and Madrid and continues to score massive goals in big knockout games in Europe and Internationally, no one can doubt that Robben's resume is one of the most impressive resumes in world football right now.

Lets move on to Gomez vs Dzeko, in knockout games Dzeko has had a bigger impact for Bosnia hes the star player (whereas Gomez still has to cement his place in the NT) and he did really well for Wolfsburgs debut season in CL.

Muller vs Aguero, this is the really interesting one, an insanely highly rated player that you spend millions on (and no doubt hes worth it) and he has done a lot in knockout competitions. He won the Olympics with Argentina and the Europa league and Super Cup with Athletico. He IS a big game performer (much like Robben) and therefore your #1 threat. But Muller is not so far behind, biggest breakthrough in WC2010, golden boot winner, he knows how to perform in knockout games as well, he just need a couple more seasons before he can be as much of an impact player as Robben.

I am not going to do each player but the rest of the German stars we have, namely Lahm/Schweinsteiger/Neuer/Badstuber all have considerable standout performances nationally and club level in knockout games. Neuer above all is known for 1-man shows carrying his club. Porto and Manchester ring a bell. Neuer is the best BIG GAME PLAYER we have, hes made for these fixtures more so than even Robben.

I am just curious about how you tend to rank our players as inferior to yours, what is this based on other than their monetary value or the fact that they play in the EPL. I tried to be as non-biased as I could and put in in the context of knockout games which applies to this fixture (even though not as much in group stages as later on).

 

[LoveCity]

At least some of their fans like us - Rummenigge (an utter elitist prick of the highest order who loves FFP as he knows his team could dominate with it in play while much competition gets buried), Boateng ("The team did not have the same togetherness. I don’t see them in the final. They have a large squad but there are better teams in the competition" - shut up), and Neuer have shown utterly arrogant, contemptuous attitudes towards us in the latest interviews, although Ribery and the manager are complimentary.

 

[Royal Blue Moon]

Bild (a trashy German rag) is tonight featuring an article online entitled: "Finally an opponent for Bayern" and the expectation that Neuer will have something to do at last in the form of trying to stop City's "sharp-shooters".

Link (in German): <a class="postlink" href="http://www.bild.de/sport/fussball/champions-league/endlich-ein-gegner-fuer-die-bayern-20160342.bild.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.bild.de/sport/fussball/champ ... .bild.html</a>

 

[bayern-flo]

Bayern will win 2:0. Your names might sound good, but the Bayern team is more experienced and stronger.

 

[Royal Blue Moon]

Bayern will win 2:0. Your names might sound good, but the Bayern team is more experienced and stronger.

You mean Bayern are more "eingebildet"?

 

[bayern-flo]

Bayern will win 2:0. Your names might sound good, but the Bayern team is more experienced and stronger.

You mean Bayern are more "eingebildet"?

The team hopefully not ;-)
And concerning the fans I think we're on the same level :-)

 

[LoveCity]

Manchester City walk with the elite: Emotional trek from Mansfield to Munich
By Matt Lawton
Last updated at 11:31 PM on 26th September 2011

For many of those who joined Manchester City on their flight to Munich, the Allianz Arena is something of a sporting utopia.

It is their field of dreams, the kind of place that for so long, not so long ago, seemed way beyond even their wildest expectations.

There were people on the plane yesterday who stood among the 3,007 watching City lose 2-1 to Mansfield the night after Old Trafford had witnessed Manchester United take another step towards a historic European and domestic treble.

It was a run that reached its extraordinary climax with that defeat of Bayern in the Nou Camp.

One member of the City party said: 'I only went because for a few days beforehand it had been reported that it was going to be the lowest crowd ever at Maine Road. We didn't even win.'

Bernard Halford would have been there - he was then the club secretary, is now the life president and will be among those pinching themselves tonight.

He was on the plane as well yesterday, as was Mike Pickering, the legendary Hacienda DJ, and Uwe Rosler, a member of the side relegated from the Premier League back in 1996.

They sat among others who have made that journey from Mansfield and Macclesfield to Munich, from the third tier of English football to the European pinnacle; among people who, by the time they return home with Roberto Mancini and his team, might even fancy their chances of coming back here to the Bavarian capital for the final next May.

For Mancini and his players, tonight is certainly an opportunity to exhibit their European credentials and plant their sky blue flag firmly on the continent.

A chance, too, to demonstrate how far they have come. It will not be easy. Not when Bayern are so strong this season.

But a team that now sits second to United in the Barclays Premier League table, and only on goal difference at that, clearly fancies its chances of making some kind of statement - even if that opening Group A game with Napoli proved a testing one.

Mancini seems to understand the significance of this evening better than anyone.

'For the supporters it is an important moment,' he said. 'To play in the Champions League, against a team like Bayern Munich. It is important to go through because after we want to stay here. Life changes sometimes. Now we are a top club.

'We want to improve, always. One result or one game cannot change this moment. As a club, a team and a squad, we have improved a lot this year and we will do in the future. But it is clear that this is an important game for this group. If we win it will be very important.'

Mancini is also the first to recognise the threat Bayern pose. Back under the guidance of Jupp Heynckes, enjoying his third spell in charge at the club, they have started the season every bit as impressively as City, despite losing their opening game in the Bundesliga.

Since that 1-0 defeat at home to Borussia Monchengladbach they have been unstoppable, rising clear at the summit of the league by winning six successive matches and scoring 21 goals without return.

Add to that a 2-0 win away to Villarreal and it seems they are very much in form. Clearly, a defence strengthened during the summer by the arrival of Manuel Neuer and Jerome Boateng is a well-organised one.

But those 21 league goals also point to a potent attacking force. As well as Thomas Muller, Arjen Robben and Franck Ribery, they have the German league's top scorer in Mario Gomez.

On Monday night Mancini said Nigel de Jong had a '60 per cent' chance of playing and he could certainly use a player of the Dutchman's defensive ability on the pitch.

But you sense Mancini has a real desire to test this Bayern back line. He would like to see a strike force that has been enhanced by the arrival of Sergio Aguero and Samir Nasri and the good form of Edin Dzeko and David Silva make a real impression on a club which only two seasons ago reached the Champions League final.

Backed by their Abu Dhabi billions, this City squad appears capable of anything and Mancini has the confidence to walk into the Allianz Arena and declare: 'We are here to win'.

But he is also aware of the challenge City face just to qualify for the last 16.

'As I said before, this is the hardest group in the Champions League because there are four teams who could go through,' he said. 'Every game will be difficult. Munich are used to playing in the Champions League. It is important that we play our football. Anything can happen.

'When you play against Munich you can lose. It will be a difficult game. But we are not a small team. We are a good team. We play against them without a problem.

We have a lot of respect for them. They have a great history but we want to do a good job.

'They started the season very well. But we want to play. This game is very important for our club to play on the same level as them, to try to score, to try to win there. Our mentality is important.'

It would seem City are here, at Europe's top table, with the right mentality. It is right that they mark their first meeting with Bayern by laying a wreath in memory of those who perished on the United flight in 1958.

A sad, bitter minority dismissed it as nothing more than a publicity stunt.

Nonsense. It shows a bit of class and provides evidence that City are now recognising the extra responsibility that comes with being one of the bigger players in European football.

Against Bayern, Mancini hopes to see his side demonstrate how big.

 

[~ Chelsea]

Chelsea played to massive crowds in Asia. There is also good support in Australia and the States. We have no problem with attracting overseas supporters.