Bernardo Silva tweet controversy

[mosssideblue]

Well you can't judge who gets offended at what. I am not having a dig, just saying.

I agree, but we have become such a snowflake society, it has gone too far imo

 

[asahartford1]

I'm afraid your wrong (he didn't use an old racial steriotype which will become apparent if you read the link in full)) and your argument is not based on fact but a perception which perfectly illustrates the point I was making with regard to the analogy I used with the "thought police". I strongly recommend you read the following (it's a long read but you obviously feel strongly about this so may wish to learn more of what Bernardo may have been thinking when he wrote his tweet.

"The Evolution of Conguitos: Changing the Face of Race in Spanish Advertising" a paper by Diane Q Palardy published in 2014 in the Journal: TRANSMODERNITY: Journal of Peripheral Cultural Production of the Luso-Hispanic World https://escholarship.org/content/qt...5oy&nosplash=7f6b9469bba6f7b20680cef253712e79

I think that when we start thought-policing people and idea-policing people, then that's crossing a line. And I think, you know, everybody's so afraid of this imaginary line of thought police that they forget their own personal safety.

Ashton Kutcher

The "Evolution of Conguitos" paper taking an academic approach is enlightening. People do not want the issue to be complicated though, "kick it out" want their view to be definitive. The "easily offended" want just that, to be easily offended. Intent to be racist, is no longer the crux of the the argument, rather the casual onlooker being offended is the prime mover, and merely by reference to centuries of racism do they justify their perspective.

 

[roy.or.r]

I agree, but we have become such a snowflake society, it has gone too far imo

True but that's what it is now. we have to accept it and move on. I think the Bernardo should just come out and apologize saying he didn't think about it while posting and move on.

 

[Metalartin]

I'm afraid your wrong (he didn't use an old racial steriotype which will become apparent if you read the link in full)) and your argument is not based on fact but a perception which perfectly illustrates the point I was making with regard to the analogy I used with the "thought police". I strongly recommend you read the following (it's a long read but you obviously feel strongly about this so may wish to learn more of what Bernardo may have been thinking when he wrote his tweet.

"The Evolution of Conguitos: Changing the Face of Race in Spanish Advertising" a paper by Diane Q Palardy published in 2014 in the Journal: TRANSMODERNITY: Journal of Peripheral Cultural Production of the Luso-Hispanic World https://escholarship.org/content/qt...5oy&nosplash=7f6b9469bba6f7b20680cef253712e79

I think that when we start thought-policing people and idea-policing people, then that's crossing a line. And I think, you know, everybody's so afraid of this imaginary line of thought police that they forget their own personal safety.

Ashton Kutcher

Forgive me for being lazy but can you just answer if the cartoon is inherently racist or whether it was appropriated by certain people and became associated with it?

If that is the case then as I said earlier, it's much like 'Pepe The Frog' when people insist it's a symbol for racism and always has been, they are in fact completely incorrect. Why should it be handed over to the white supremacists just because they decided they wanted use it after seeing it elsewhere?

If people see racism where there is none, be offended when there was no intent to, then they are the one with the problem. Someone has the right to an innocent joke amongst friends, just a strongly as those who want to get offended and make something of nothing. If Bernardo wants to appologise fine but he shouldn't be made to on this in my opinion.

 

[Machiavelli]

I'm afraid your wrong (he didn't use an old racial steriotype which will become apparent if you read the link in full)) and your argument is not based on fact but a perception which perfectly illustrates the point I was making with regard to the analogy I used with the "thought police". I strongly recommend you read the following (it's a long read but you obviously feel strongly about this so may wish to learn more of what Bernardo may have been thinking when he wrote his tweet.

"The Evolution of Conguitos: Changing the Face of Race in Spanish Advertising" a paper by Diane Q Palardy published in 2014 in the Journal: TRANSMODERNITY: Journal of Peripheral Cultural Production of the Luso-Hispanic World https://escholarship.org/content/qt...5oy&nosplash=7f6b9469bba6f7b20680cef253712e79

I think that when we start thought-policing people and idea-policing people, then that's crossing a line. And I think, you know, everybody's so afraid of this imaginary line of thought police that they forget their own personal safety.

Ashton Kutcher

I wonder if Ashton Kutcher would offer the same quote if potential anti-semitism was being discussed instead of skin colour?

 

[Brightwell Bros.]

The "Evolution of Conguitos" paper taking an academic approach is enlightening. People do not want the issue to be complicated though, "kick it out" want their view to be definitive. The "easily offended" want just that, to be easily offended. Intent to be racist, is no longer the crux of the the argument, rather the casual onlooker being offended is the prime mover, and merely by reference to centuries of racism do they justify their perspective.

Taken from the paper: "Stuart Hall examines how the “dominant cultural order” is used to interpret codes, which have “institutional/political/ideological order imprinted in them and have themselves become institutionalized” (34). This naturally creates a hierarchy for modes of understanding cultural codes, leaving alternative interpretations either forgotten or unrecognized, or open to mockery and scrutiny. For many Spaniards, Conguitos are synonymous with fun, escapism, and nostalgia for youth, yet the persistence of the name itself and the ways that Spaniards have appropriated the cultural construct reveal (as will later be demonstrated) that the racial undertones have not disappeared."

I'm more than happy to acknowledge this is complex. I don't think Bernie is evil or especially racist, but I think it's a mascot that still has racial undertones, particularly when placed into its history, and especially when taken out of Spain/Portugal. I also think taking my concerns in bad faith and assuming that I'm a snowflake or whatever actually confirms what Hall is talking about here (Hall being one of the biggest influences on how I see and think about these things, having written The Empire Strikes Back and Policing the Crisis, among other things).

 

[Wretched Vengeance]

Some peoples heads would explode if they were in the forces,if you are a ginge you get called a ginge as prince harry found out,if you are black you get called something related to that as you do if you are white or whatever your nationality is etc,if the people involved are happy then there is no problem

Agree with everything except the bit about black folk. I have been in the forces for nearly 28 years now and have never experienced that. I wouldn't feel comfortable with it in the slightest. However, we do enjoy plenty of 'banter' and much of it would probably seem to be quite rude and perverse to those that haven't maybe been in the forces.

Maybe it went on in the years before I joined as I believe I may have noticed you mention your ex husband was in the RN. Like everything, we all have to move with the times and diversify. We certainly spend a lot of time in briefs these days with regards to D&I, and rightly so.

 

[BlueRockape]

I agree, but we have become such a snowflake society, it has gone too far imo

Are you calling me a snowflake....how very dare you ; )

 

[asahartford1]

Taken from the paper: "Stuart Hall examines how the “dominant cultural order” is used to interpret codes, which have “institutional/political/ideological order imprinted in them and have themselves become institutionalized” (34). This naturally creates a hierarchy for modes of understanding cultural codes, leaving alternative interpretations either forgotten or unrecognized, or open to mockery and scrutiny. For many Spaniards, Conguitos are synonymous with fun, escapism, and nostalgia for youth, yet the persistence of the name itself and the ways that Spaniards have appropriated the cultural construct reveal (as will later be demonstrated) that the racial undertones have not disappeared."

I'm more than happy to acknowledge this is complex. I don't think Bernie is evil or especially racist, but I think it's a mascot that still has racial undertones, particularly when placed into its history, and especially when taken out of Spain/Portugal. I also think taking my concerns in bad faith and assuming that I'm a snowflake or whatever actually confirms what Hall is talking about here (Hall being one of the biggest influences on how I see and think about these things, having written The Empire Strikes Back and Policing the Crisis, among other things).

I was not criticising you at all. I have some knowledge of the Culture of Spaniards, having a home there for 20 years and trying to experience and understand cultural difference. It is different to Britain for a myriad of reasons and i refuse to judge that difference. I just thought it important to point out that this is a cross cultural complex issue.

 

[chrisY]

Forgive me for being lazy but can you just answer if the cartoon is inherently racist or whether it was appropriated by certain people and became associated with it?

If that is the case then as I said earlier, it's much like 'Pepe The Frog' when people insist it's a symbol for racism and always has been, they are in fact completely incorrect. Why should it be handed over to the white supremacists just because they decided they wanted use it after seeing it elsewhere?

that cartoon had some dodgy commercial over the past