Blaming the players

Moebius said:
The saying is , you cant polish a turd. Sven couldnt and neither can Mark hughes. Something has got to give, and even before Mark Hughes took the city job virtually the same team lost to boro 8-1.

Personally, if i was hughes i'd pay up money to the players i want out to terminate there contract now and play reserves until we sign decent quality, at least they would work for the badge and give 110%. The ones we could actually get money for id do a firesale.

I agree about the players but I'd give Dunne & Micah the chance to challenge from the bench. I don't rate those players as any different now than they were last year. That team gave up just after Christmas last year, played exactly the same against Sheff Utd & imo the best players at the club are the new signings plus Ireland.

Elano was shite for more than half of last season, the defence was hopeless after winning at OT, Joe Hart was no different to what he is now promising but not ready. Dunne imo has been up & down for his whole career & gets the player of the year award largely because others have been worse.

Get some new ones in.
 
biffa said:
Moebius said:
The saying is , you cant polish a turd. Sven couldnt and neither can Mark hughes. Something has got to give, and even before Mark Hughes took the city job virtually the same team lost to boro 8-1.

Personally, if i was hughes i'd pay up money to the players i want out to terminate there contract now and play reserves until we sign decent quality, at least they would work for the badge and give 110%. The ones we could actually get money for id do a firesale.
So you think we've got a worse squad than Forest do you?
I really don't undestand your reasoning, good for you though I admire your optimism and loyalty to Mark Hughes - mine ran out last month!

haha yea, i guess patience is a virtue.

But i agree with you, as a squad we have better than forest of course. As a *team* that played today, there were players in our team that wouldnt be out of place in the championship, quite a few of them. When we have Ireland/Robinho/Sweep/Johnson/Petrov/Boj all out, we dont have a team to shout about. The squad has virtually no depth, we can tell that by vassell being required, by hamman being required, by Gelson being required.

Hughes has started to plug the gaps, Bridge in with garrido as backup i hope. Lets just hope he signs more of the same caliber.
 
Moebius said:
The saying is , you cant polish a turd. Sven couldnt and neither can Mark hughes. Something has got to give, and even before Mark Hughes took the city job virtually the same team lost to boro 8-1.

Personally, if i was hughes i'd pay up money to the players i want out to terminate there contract now and play reserves until we sign decent quality, at least they would work for the badge and give 110%. The ones we could actually get money for id do a firesale.

Think your missing the point of the thread.
 
JohnMaddocksAxe i agree with you mate and i'd like to add something on to that. Does anyone remember how good the players actually were when Alan Ball was manager and got us relegated . As that used to be one of the things that got to me the most back in the day when we first got relegated from the premiership.

Those players that left city a load of them ended up as captains of teams in the premiership, i can't remember the names at the moment but one was captain of west ham another was captain i think of Blackburn and others went on to do really well as well. Basically we had a bloody good bunch of players and because of piss poor management we ended up getting relegated.

And you know what its fucking killing me at the moment because i'm seeing the exact same fucking thing happen again before my eyes. The fans are divided and at each others throats, good players are under performing, the manager is showing a lack of leadership. And anything that can go against us is going against us, i really really do fear that the club is about to implode again. And like Alan Ball who did it to us last time, Lesie Mark Hughes is doing as fucking good job at destroying us.
 
macky said:
we 've done the changing manager bit too many times havent we??? some of those performances today and for most of the season have been an absolute disgrace and i will single out elano and richards as the main culprits. MH needs to be allowed to produce his own team in a fair ammount of time.
then lets build for the fizzy pop because thats where we are going under hughes
 
Moebius said:
biffa said:
So you think we've got a worse squad than Forest do you?
I really don't undestand your reasoning, good for you though I admire your optimism and loyalty to Mark Hughes - mine ran out last month!

haha yea, i guess patience is a virtue.

But i agree with you, as a squad we have better than forest of course. As a *team* that played today, there were players in our team that wouldnt be out of place in the championship, quite a few of them. When we have Ireland/Robinho/Sweep/Johnson/Petrov/Boj all out, we dont have a team to shout about. The squad has virtually no depth, we can tell that by vassell being required, by hamman being required, by Gelson being required.

Hughes has started to plug the gaps, Bridge in with garrido as backup i hope. Lets just hope he signs more of the same caliber.

Hughes has created the leaks..............no pun intended
 
JohnMaddocksAxe said:
Numerous threads on here yet again blaming the players. Yet the hypocrasy stinks. Time and again the same characters are acusing some of the 'hughes out' lot of banging the same drum regardless of what occurs. This is of course true in some cases and some were against him before he got here. That is indefensible.

However, time and again, after each woeful and unacceptable performance the same 'Hughes through thick and thin' brigade seek to completely absolve the management from any responsibility and put all the blame on the players.

Consider this though. We have all seen the majority of these players perform at a very high level either whilst or City or before they joined. Yet now it is not one or two players that are consistently putting in below par performances, it is the vast majority of the squad.

These under performing players. Just hold on for a minute and consider who they are.

Elano - Brazil international
Robinho (according to some) - one of the best players in the world
Richards - the youngest ever defender to play for England and, until this season, recognised by all as probably the best defender of his age in Europe.
Dunne - Captain of the Republic of Ireland and a top Premier League defender for the past 5 season.
SWP - brilliant winger whose productivity has decreased over the past few weeks.
Joe Hart - Easily the best young keeper in the country, possibly Europe.


Add in the likes of Ireland, Sturridge and Kompany who have lept a consistent performance and that's some basis for a squad.

How can it be that all these players have all of a suddenly either hit an unimaginable patch of form or have suddenly turned into these disgusting characters who the Hughes brigade would have you believe couldn't give a shit about this club, the fans or anyone else?

It doesn't add up. Things don't work like that.

Throughout history the football manager has been held accountable for results. When a sustained level of drastic underperformance has been achieved then a manager inevitably gets held responsible and held to account.

When results have been as bad as they have been and the majority of the squad, not one or two or a small section, have been so below par then a manager is held responsible for it. In any sector at a high level, in any job, but especially football management, the buck passing excuse of "its nothing to do with me, its the people below me just does not wash over anything other than a short honeymoon period. Especially when the people below you are performing at a level so far below their collective ability.

Managers are there to maximise performance from their resources. If they get much more from than the sum of the parts then they are exceptional managers. If they get slightly more then they are doing a decent job. If they consistently get far less than the sum of the parts then their position becomes untenable and the buck passing cry of 'it's everyone elses fault' becomes laughable.

These players have obviously not taken the collective decision to flush their careers and reputations down the toilet yet this is what they are virtually doing at present.

Whilst responsibility lies with the players to some extent for everything that happens on the field, the buck stops with the management. It always has and always will. If you have such highly rated resources and get such terrible results then in any other industry, where you don't have 'supporters' willing to buy into cliches and support you regardless, you are sacked.

Every single manager who ever got the sack could point to the players as not haing performed. From Alan Ball to Barry Fry, they would be correct. The players obviously haven't performed because the results have been bad - that's why they have been sacked.

It doesn't matter though. They are responsible for getting performances out of the players and ensuring that they buy into them.

The buck stops with the manager.

(ps: no manager that has ever been sacked in the history of football has ever had the temerity to say "I've spent £80m and produced awful results, but just let me spend another £100m and everything will be alright" so it's not exactly relevant. I don't care who takes over until the end of the season. The management can't get anything like decent performances from the squad and I would therefore back any old mug to have some sort of 'Joe Kinnear' slight improvement that would avert the disater that this management team is flirting with)

Magnificently put. But I fear you are a voice in the wilderness, lost in the mists of the January window! Oh and RobbieBrewer, you also talk absolute sense. Most appreciated.
 
Well on february the second the Hughes in brigade will no longer be able to blame the players I wonder what their excuse will be then the weather?
 

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