Bloody Sunday: Soldier F faces murder charges

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

Indeed they are abhorrent, but out they went, and that's why there is the current outrage.
As @blueinsa has stated, for some reason, this government is pandering to republicans.

But the law doesnt (shouldnt) work like that...you dont get away with something because someone else did. You have to answer for your crimes.

 

[hilts]

Have all investigations been stopped? I wasnt aware they were...the GFA and the release of prisoners dealt with those who were caught and prosecuted. The OTR letters was a shady deal down by the british government and the IRA (and i believe some loyalist criminals, but im not 100% on that). Also, what were the nature of the crimes of those who received OTR letters? Was it murder....was it racketeering...was it membership of a proscribed organisation...was it speeding offences?
Those letters were not a reprieve anyway...they included the points essentially, that at that moment there was no case against them...but if further evidence came to light, they would be investigated. They were letters of assurance to those involved in securing peace.


As of last year, a third of troubles related crimes are still being investgated...the Historical Crimes team was still in effect up until 2015 (i think)

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...lings-still-under-investigation-36788670.html

Fella if you genuinely believe that terrorists from both sides are actively being investigated and there isnt anyone out there that could be brought to trial because there is no evidence that’s your business. I do not believe it. It’s political.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Indeed they are abhorrent, but out they went, and that's why there is the current outrage.
As @blueinsa has stated, for some reason, this government is pandering to republicans.

It's not pandering to Republicans.
Whether the families of the victims are Nationalist/Republican or whatever has nothing got to do with it.
First and foremost they were and still are UK citizens who have fought long and hard for justice for their families.
To clear their names and then to seek the truth about firstly how the military covered up and finally getting their tribunal.

I see a lot of similarities with the Liverpool victim's families fighting against the state cover up.

If what the defence forces were doing was the UK state defending it's territory, then you can't have it both ways by labelling civil rights marchers Republicans.
Whether they were or weren't is irrelevant. They were UK citizens.
There's talk of double standards around this all the time.
If you want to talk about double standards then ask why the hell the people of Derry felt the need to march for civil rights in the first place, in the UK.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

As I said previously, these were UK citizens killed by the state defence forces. If you don't think that this needs the highest levels of scrutiny then we just disagree.
Like I said there is more sympathy shown for the victims of Hillsborough.

I agree that it needed the highest levels of scrutiny, and it's had it, the enquiry went on for donkey's years.

I'd equate it to something more like had the army been called in to quash the miners' strike and started shooting into the crowd.
How would that sit with you?

I wouldn't equate it to that analogy, personally, but even if I accept it, we keep coming back to why one
and not the others, so it's not a discussion that appears to be moving, the soldier may be a ruthless, cold bloodied
murdering bastard, who deliberately, and knowingly, shot people.
The same as the ones who received get off letters, so round and round we go.

 

[The blue phantom]

It’s irrelevant in fact it only strengthens my case. Whatever this soldier has done it can’t be any worse than cold blooded killing of innocents. Or do we know look at murder on a scale? You have either committed a crime or you haven’t. If you want to give people amnesty then you give to everyone, it’s not a hard concept.

I get the feeling though that had the IRA not had all these amnesty letters and they'd all served their time for the attacks.

Would folk still support Soldier F for the murders he comitted, or would they label him a scumbag and a murderer?

As it seems all the support and the marches are basically because he's carrying the can when everyone else have walked free.

So be interesting if any of his supporters could answer the question?

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

Fella if you genuinely believe that terrorists from both sides are actively being investigated and there isnt anyone out there that could be brought to trial because there is no evidence that’s your business. I do not believe it. It’s political.

Yes, they are still investigating things...successfully and unsuccessfully...you could say the bloody sunday investigations are a wider part of that

https://www.thedetail.tv/articles/new-figures-reveal-scale-of-unsolved-killings-from-the-troubles

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

I agree that it needed the highest levels of scrutiny, and it's had it, the enquiry went on for donkey's years.


I wouldn't equate it to that analogy, personally, but even if I accept it, we keep coming back to why one
and not the others, so it's not a discussion that appears to be moving, the soldier may be a ruthless, cold bloodied
murdering bastard, who deliberately, and knowingly, shot people.
The same as the ones who received get off letters, so round and round we go.

Theres more evidence against him so he's taking the rap for all of them....the rest are getting OTR letters, and he's going down.

probably

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

It’s irrelevant in fact it only strengthens my case. Whatever this soldier has done it can’t be any worse than cold blooded killing of innocents. Or do we know look at murder on a scale? You have either committed a crime or you haven’t. If you want to give people amnesty then you give to everyone, it’s not a hard concept.

I think the point is, it was the cold blooded killing of innocents.
There's that inference again that these UK citizens were perhaps not as innocent as other UK citizens.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

But the law doesnt (shouldnt) work like that...you dont get away with something because someone else did. You have to answer for your crimes.

Couldn't agree more, but they did get away with it, so the law has been traduced by the government of the time.
Again, which is why there is outrage at the prosecution.

 

[The blue phantom]

Indeed they are abhorrent, but out they went, and that's why there is the current outrage.
As @blueinsa has stated, for some reason, this government is pandering to republicans.

Why do folk keep posting this bollocks. This is the goverments take on it.


"UK Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said the government would offer full legal support to Soldier F - including paying his legal costs and providing welfare support.

"We are indebted to those soldiers who served with courage and distinction to bring peace to Northern Ireland," he said. "The welfare of our former service personnel is of the utmost importance."

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I agree that it needed the highest levels of scrutiny, and it's had it, the enquiry went on for donkey's years.


I wouldn't equate it to that analogy, personally, but even if I accept it, we keep coming back to why one
and not the others, so it's not a discussion that appears to be moving, the soldier may be a ruthless, cold bloodied
murdering bastard, who deliberately, and knowingly, shot people.
The same as the ones who received get off letters, so round and round we go.

The fact is that it is just an analogy, because it wouldn't happen ever on mainland Britain.
As for the letters to the 200. As Alex already said,I don't know who got letters or what they are accused of, so cannot objectively assume that they are all murdering bastard, who deliberately, and knowingly, shot people.

The point being, there are an awful lot of assumptions that one thing equates to another without background evidence.

 

[hilts]

I get the feeling though that had the IRA not had all these amnesty letters and they'd all served their time for the attacks.

Would folk still support Soldier F for the murders he comitted, or would they label him a scumbag and a murderer?

As it seems all the support and the marches are basically because he's carrying the can when everyone else have walked free.

So be interesting if any of his supporters could answer the question?

I don’t support him so I cannot answer that question I’m afraid. Most of the posts I have read are questioning the hypocrisy and political nature of this. I haven’t read every post though.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I’m not sure the families of victims can sleep well tonight knowing that we only prosecute murderers whose standards should be better. I’m sure if my kid was killed by any of the terrorists from either side I would be pretty pissed. These terrorists don’t really have very high standards wouldn’t appease me much, hence it’s a crock of shit.

If we are prosecuting one murderer during the troubles we have a duty to prosecute the others. It’s not about sides it’s about justice.

That shows not even a basic understanding of anything I've posted or the point I made in posting it & answers not one single direct question.

Which is absolutely typical.

 

[hilts]

I think the point is, it was the cold blooded killing of innocents.
There's that inference again that these UK citizens were perhaps not as innocent as other UK citizens.

So those killed by terrorists weren’t innocents? I can only state it so many times. You don’t choose which murderers you want to prosecute. You do your best to get all the fuckers. Unless there is an agreement that you prosecute none to stop further killings.

 

[hilts]

That shows not even a basic understanding of anything I've posted or the point I made in posting it & answers not one single direct question.

Which is absolutely typical.

I can’t be arsed with the black pot kettle gif to be honest.

 

[notthenorthernquarter]

I have advised every member of my family that joining the military specially the army is something they should ignore, get the lawyers in uniforms and send them over the metaphorical top.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I can’t be arsed with the black pot kettle gif to be honest.

I'm talking about OUR standards for OUR military.

Fuck all the terrorists & their standards. I expect them not to have any. They are terrorists.

It's not two sides of an argument, otherwise our soldiers could decapitate innocent people for entertainment.

We maintain OUR standards, not for their benefit, but for ours.

Everything seems to be some sort of competition with you.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I have advised every member of my family that joining the military specially the army is something they should ignore, get the lawyers in uniforms and send them over the metaphorical top.

If Farage & Reece Mogg ever get to power, they probably won't get a choice.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

So those killed by terrorists weren’t innocents? I can only state it so many times. You don’t choose which murderers you want to prosecute. You do your best to get all the fuckers. Unless there is an agreement that you prosecute none to stop further killings.

Where in the name of God are you getting that from what I wrote.
It's the whole point of everything I've been arguing.
You wrote;
Whatever this soldier has done it can’t be any worse than cold blooded killing of innocents.

Whether intentional or not there is an inference in that statement that this was not the cold blooded killing of innocents and other killings by terrorists were.
Both were. I can't make that any clearer. However your statement demonstrates what the families of innocent victims in the Bloody Sunday massacre are still dealing with within some sectors of British society.

 

[hilts]

I'm talking about OUR standards for OUR military.

Fuck all the terrorists & their standards. I expect them not to have any. They are terrorists.

It's not two sides of an argument, otherwise our soldiers could decapitate innocent people for entertainment.

We maintain OUR standards, not for their benefit, but for ours.

Everything seems to be some sort of competition with you.

What the hell are you talking about man, you would have to show me where I said our military doesn’t need standards. Do you or do you not believe if we prosecute this soldier it is right to try and prosecute every murderer during the troubles. They have all left misery to victims families.

Yes or no it’s pretty straightforward.