Bobby Gunning For Karl-Heinz Rummenigge!

[Aequitas1987]

Essentially the FFP is modeled after the Bundesliga where having large debts would lead to relegation. FFP is a modified version of that to fit into the complete European model. The Bundesliga is the best run league for years now with great youth development that is now strengthening the National team, constant competition for the Bundesliga title. It was a slow crawl to get to where the Bundesliga is now, constantly being shunned by the quote on quote superior leagues who were throwing their money around recklessly. And the results are finally being showcased. Clubs like Dortmund, Schalke, Leverkusen will only benefit even further from FFP.

Its being shown in the national stage, its being shown in the european stage with Bayern reaching the finals, then Schalkes incredible run last year, pipping the Serie A to become the 3rd best league in European coefficients to now 2/3 german clubs being through to the knockout rounds of the champions league and its only going to get better from here. If the Bundesliga which was modeled on FFP is already showcasing positive results why would it be a bad model for the rest of the world?

 

[SWP's back]

Simply clueless, Absolutely bloody clueless, myoptic, idiotic and without thought. It kills competition, it crystalises the current status quo, it is the reason your twatty Karl wants it. He knows we are a threat, more than a threat in fact and he hates it. He knows our future is brighter than yours.

You clearly only look at the argument as a 1 way street. It does not crystalize the current status quo because they are the ones who are endangered by FFP in the first place. The only way the status quo remains in place year in and year out is to have purchasing power beyond their means and being able to exploit that while going continuously in debt, a.k.a the Chelsea, Manure, City, Barca, Inter.

Your thinking leads to the fact that the only way to become part of the status quo is to compete with them in financial terms in an ever-escalating ridiculous transfer market where the argument comes down to who has a bigger sugar daddy? Why not think about curbing the current big teams and moving them towards sound business management thereby restricting their power over other teams who are not part of the 'status quo' and thereby enabling them to invest in youth products/youth development, proper revenue streams via brand marketing and fan base growth.

Just take a breath and a step outside your biased bubble and assume for a second that if City had not become a financial powerhouse and a competitor/part of the Status Quo would you have been pro or against FFP? What has changed? If FFP was completely legitimate back then, why is it not now? Think about football as a global entity rather than from a biased point of view of your own club. Like I said, even If i was not a Bayern fan who has a lot to gain from FFP (Only because they have done right by the football world) I would still support FFP.

Strongbowholic now your points are way more interesting as I was not aware of this plan. This means that City does have a way to counter-act FFP and they are developing a plan around it. My only thing is that how quickly can this plan come to fruition? Could City be in the black without costing it a year worth of European competition? If that is possible then City do have the right management guiding them now.

OK, point one, we are NOT in debt.

Point two, Utd are not in danger from FFP. If you wish to debate FFP, maybe do some research.

FFP makes those teams that currently have the highest turnover the kings and no one shall ever be able to get up to their level as they have all the money, from CL, advertising and respective leagues and TV deals. City have more than doubled their income thanks to our owner and increased revenues streams due to our reletive success/media attention. That could never have happened without outside investment, if you read the swiss ramble blog, you will see that we shall easily meet the terms FFP sets so I am not biased or in a bubble, instead I am able to think freely for myself unlike you.

You really need to learn more about FFP and more about City if you don't want to look an arse in this chat.

 

[MCC]

Essentially the FFP is modeled after the Bundesliga where having large debts would lead to relegation. FFP is a modified version of that to fit into the complete European model. The Bundesliga is the best run league for years now with great youth development that is now strengthening the National team, constant competition for the Bundesliga title. It was a slow crawl to get to where the Bundesliga is now, constantly being shunned by the quote on quote superior leagues who were throwing their money around recklessly. And the results are finally being showcased. Clubs like Dortmund, Schalke, Leverkusen will only benefit even further from FFP.

Its being shown in the national stage, its being shown in the european stage with Bayern reaching the finals, then Schalkes incredible run last year, pipping the Serie A to become the 3rd best league in European coefficients to now 2/3 german clubs being through to the knockout rounds of the champions league and its only going to get better from here. If the Bundesliga which was modeled on FFP is already showcasing positive results why would it be a bad model for the rest of the world?

Is your name Karl-Heinz or Der Kaiser?

 

[SWP's back]

Another point all of you guys seem to be looking over because of emotional rants is that Rummenigge is one of the main originators and supporters of FFP and helped pass the law initially as this FFP comes more and more into fruition he is simply doing his job and keeping the spotlight on the one or two clubs who could suffer due to FFP, there is no harm in that. It keeps the spotlight on FFP which is what he wants. Man City and Chelsea are two of many large clubs across europe who could suffer.

Secondly, Bayern has always been the trademark for being a financially sound club. No other club can boast being 18 years in the black and still being able to regularly compete in Europe and for the league. There are no negatives to FFP. I would be saying this even If I was not a Bayern fan. It just makes absolute sense, it increases competition, it promotes youth development, it introduces sound financial management which is gravely lacking in a lot of clubs. City is not all f***** yet they could always follow the Real Madrid example, who spend a lot but they earn more via star power purchases, massive fan base etc, if City follow Madrids example they will be fine by the time FFP comes about.

Your quite correct in what you say but we will be the last club to spend big just to compete for leagues and champs league trophies! Now think about this to "compete" we have to spend 100 of millions now that where lies the problem.....I predict also in the next 10 years Manchester City's Revenue will be more than Bayern's

Sorry but how is he correct? He could not be further from being "correct". He could try, but he would not succeed.<br /><br />-- Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:37 pm --<br /><br />

It does not crystalize the current status quo because they are the ones who are endangered by FFP in the first place.

Please explain. It's my understanding you can only spend what you make and you could be 800 mil in debt but if you make 100 mil from shirt sales, you can spend it. Yet you can have no debt but if you make 5 mil from shirt sales, that's all you can spend. Am I mistaken?

The big clubs with huge fanbases make huge money so can spend it. Any other club is thus restricted to buying cheaper players and can't compete. The only way to change that, a wealthy owner, is also forbidden in these protectionist rules.

If you are 800 million in debt you need to liquidate that debt before you can spend any 'profit/earnings'. You cant just sit on that debt. So specifically, Manure/Inter/Barcelona and Chelsea to a certain extent are the four clubs with the most to lose in terms of their position in this conspiracy theory cartel you guys are talking about. Basically by FFP is COMPLETELY into play which is a few years away all these clubs have to be in the black or they will suffer from bans from transfer markets / European competition etc.

The only real unbalance in FFP is the two Spanish clubs and their ridiculous control of the La Liga TV Rights which will always allow them to have a very large imbalanced revenue stream compared to the rest of the world. Beyond that league, FFP will benefit every other league in play by giving the ability of smaller clubs to hold onto their key players and build around them rather than simply being feeder clubs. You need to think about FFP from a sporting perspective as well, curbing the financial power of the status quo allows for more competition , long term development from a sporting perspective in the smaller clubs.

Fucking hell. I had no idea that you knew so little.

What the hell are you on about?

 

[jrb]

Essentially the FFP is modeled after the Bundesliga where having large debts would lead to relegation. FFP is a modified version of that to fit into the complete European model. The Bundesliga is the best run league for years now with great youth development that is now strengthening the National team, constant competition for the Bundesliga title. It was a slow crawl to get to where the Bundesliga is now, constantly being shunned by the quote on quote superior leagues who were throwing their money around recklessly. And the results are finally being showcased. Clubs like Dortmund, Schalke, Leverkusen will only benefit even further from FFP.

Its being shown in the national stage, its being shown in the european stage with Bayern reaching the finals, then Schalkes incredible run last year, pipping the Serie A to become the 3rd best league in European coefficients to now 2/3 german clubs being through to the knockout rounds of the champions league and its only going to get better from here. If the Bundesliga which was modeled on FFP is already showcasing positive results why would it be a bad model for the rest of the world?

Tell me, which non-cartel clubs will gatecrash the party under FFPR? Tell me which clubs get similar TV and sponsorship revenue, and have large enough stadiums to increase their attendences and matchday turnover? Well.

Clubs like Everton, Newcastle, Villa, etc are f***ed. They can't afford to expand their stadiums or build new ones. The are hampered by the capacity of their grounds. This inturn means they are unable to buy the best players to improve their chances of finsihing in the top 4, and in so doing, gain a place in the CL.

I'm sorry, but you're deluded. Once again, FFPR is there to protect and keep the cartel at the top of the table. The rest can only dream of having a turnover(TV, sponsorship, stadium, crowds) that will get them into the CL. Nevermind competing in it when they get there.

 

[toffee balls]

Let's just keep cool and kick the shite out of their ledenhosen arses

 

[alky313]

FFPR ended domestic football parity, if it ever existed in the last 10 years. There is no ROI on massive investments anymore. Congrats Platini.

 

[Aequitas1987]

Do enlighten me SWP.

As an initial compromise, clubs will be able to record maximum losses of €45 million (£39.5m) in total over the following three years. That can be subsidised by an owner but only if they invest the money permanently in return for shares, not by lending it as Roman Abramovich did when he first took control of Chelsea. If owners are unable to subsidise debts, the maximum loss is €5m (£4.4m).

From 2014 to 2017, the overall permitted loss will fall to €30m (£26.3m) for each three-year block monitored by Uefa. After that, Uefa hope clubs will have learned financial balance and be genuinely breaking even.

* Three years to ‘break even’

* Clubs will be able to record maximum losses of £39.5m before 2014

* From 2014 to 2017, the overall permitted loss will fall to £26.3m

* Owners cannot bail clubs out of debt with personal wealth

* Clubs could face exclusion from Uefa competitions in 2014-15

* Newly-created Club Financial Control Panel to ensure rules are abided by

* Arsenal would comfortably meet FFP requirements but Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool & Manchester City would fail at present

However, Uefa’s break-even calculation is not the same as a club’s statutory accounts. Expenditure such as youth development, stadium infrastructure and community development does not count towards FFP. Depreciation on tangible fixed assets is also excluded. In the case of Chelsea, for instance, analysts estimate that around £10m a year is spent on a youth set-up that has yet to really bear fruit, while another £9m can be lopped off for depreciation on tangible fixed assets such as spectator facilities at Stamford Bridge or training facilities at the club’s Cobham headquarters. Therefore, FFP rules would allow Chelsea to reduce their expenses by £19m, which is a considerable portion of the £70.9m loss revealed on their last annual balance sheet.

Furthermore, deep in Uefa’s 91-page FFP document lies a safety net. Even if a club misses the break-even target, it can still be granted a licence if it meets two criteria – the trend of losses is improving; and the over-spend is caused by the wages of players that were contracted before June 2010 (when the fair-play rules were approved). However, that flexibility is only available for the reporting period ending in 2012.

In England where high transfer fees are rife the new rules may well stimulate competition and mean that rich clubs wont be racking up ‘sustainable’ debt whilst smaller sides become glorified feeder clubs for the big boys, it took City spending over 1 billion pounds to break the monopoly of the ‘big four’ which was the status quo of English football for far too long. Perhaps now, if these rules are properly implemented smaller sides will be able to break into the top 4. By blocking huge money signings it will also mean teams are more reliant on farming young players something that will undoubtedly have a positive effect for the English national team as at the moment young players development is often neglected as bigger name foreign players dominate the positions with youngsters being loaned down the divisons.

Man City’s new 300 million pound deal to rename their stadium the Etihad stadium over ten years appears to be a clear violation of the rules but City may well get away with it. Etihad is owned by the owners of Man City and by pledging the large sum from Etihad airlines Gary Cook, City’s Chief Executive feels he has shrewdly side stepped the new regulation. However UEFA should clamp down hard on this if they want the rules to stick and be truly successful, Chelsea and Spurs apparently floated the idea of selling the naming rights of White Hart Lane and Stamford Bridge respectively but reportedly struggled to get even 10 million pounds a year let alone the 30 million that City’s deal is worth. City will have to prove that the sum is the correct fee for such naming rights which it appears is not.

"Uefa is aware of the recent transfer activity across Europe. It must be noted, however, that the financial fair play rules do not prevent clubs from spending money on transfers themselves but rather require them to balance their books at the end of the season. It is therefore difficult to comment on any individual situation without knowing the long-term strategy of each club," a statement on the official Uefa website reads.

"There is no doubt that transfers made now will impact on the break-even results of the financial years ending 2012 and 2013 – the first financial years to be assessed under the break-even rule. The clubs know the rules and also know that Uefa is fully committed to implementing them with rigour. For example, as from this summer all payments due on transfers and to employees will be assessed by the Club Financial Control Panel (CFC Panel) as part of the "enhanced overdue payables" rule.

 

[jrb]

Essentially the FFP is modeled after the Bundesliga where having large debts would lead to relegation. FFP is a modified version of that to fit into the complete European model. The Bundesliga is the best run league for years now with great youth development that is now strengthening the National team, constant competition for the Bundesliga title. It was a slow crawl to get to where the Bundesliga is now, constantly being shunned by the quote on quote superior leagues who were throwing their money around recklessly. And the results are finally being showcased. Clubs like Dortmund, Schalke, Leverkusen will only benefit even further from FFP.

Its being shown in the national stage, its being shown in the european stage with Bayern reaching the finals, then Schalkes incredible run last year, pipping the Serie A to become the 3rd best league in European coefficients to now 2/3 german clubs being through to the knockout rounds of the champions league and its only going to get better from here. If the Bundesliga which was modeled on FFP is already showcasing positive results why would it be a bad model for the rest of the world?

Tell me, which non-cartel clubs will gatecrash the party under FFPR? Tell me which clubs get similar TV and sponsorship revenue, and have large enough stadiums to increase their attendences and matchday turnover? Well.

Clubs like Everton, Newcastle, Villa, etc are f***ed. They can't afford to expand their stadiums or build new ones. The are hampered by the capacity of their grounds. This inturn means they are unable to buy the best players to improve their chances of finsihing in the top 4, and in so doing, gain a place in the CL.

I'm sorry, but you're deluded. Once again, FFPR is there to protect and keep the cartel at the top of the table. The rest can only dream of having a turnover(TV, sponsorship, stadium, crowds) that will get them into the CL. Nevermind competing in it when they get there.

Gald you agree.

 

[Nascent Blues]

Essentially the FFP is modeled after the Bundesliga where having large debts would lead to relegation. FFP is a modified version of that to fit into the complete European model. The Bundesliga is the best run league for years now with great youth development that is now strengthening the National team, constant competition for the Bundesliga title. It was a slow crawl to get to where the Bundesliga is now, constantly being shunned by the quote on quote superior leagues who were throwing their money around recklessly. And the results are finally being showcased. Clubs like Dortmund, Schalke, Leverkusen will only benefit even further from FFP.

Its being shown in the national stage, its being shown in the european stage with Bayern reaching the finals, then Schalkes incredible run last year, pipping the Serie A to become the 3rd best league in European coefficients to now 2/3 german clubs being through to the knockout rounds of the champions league and its only going to get better from here. If the Bundesliga which was modeled on FFP is already showcasing positive results why would it be a bad model for the rest of the world?

You have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about.