Brian Cox

[Chippy_boy]

It might work with non sentient matter but not with sentient beings. If I go to Sydney, it's because I've chosen to. That's my responsibility, not the universe's.

Physics applies just the same to sentient beings as it does to lumps of coal, unless you believe in Daleks and Time Lords?

I thought we might get into this "argument" though. What you fail to consider (I think) is that it is very possible that whereas you thought 5 minutes ago, you were going through your own free will, post what you did - that in reality you were *always* going to post it. And what you "choose" to post next, is also predetermined.

How would you know otherwise? Serious question.

 

[aguero93:20]

Physics applies just the same to sentient beings as it does to lumps of coal, unless you believe in Daleks and Time Lords?

I thought we might get into this "argument" though. What you fail to consider (I think) is that it is very possible that whereas you thought 5 minutes ago, you were going through your own free will, post what you did - that in reality you were *always* going to post it. And what you "choose" to post next, is also predetermined.

Sentient beings can change direction without any external application of force though, that's the difference.

The idea that everything is predetermined is very uncomfortable for me, it lets us abdicate responsibility for our actions and abandon morality. The idea that we have freewill doesn't.

 

[tonea2003]

Physics applies just the same to sentient beings as it does to lumps of coal, unless you believe in Daleks and Time Lords?

I thought we might get into this "argument" though. What you fail to consider (I think) is that it is very possible that whereas you thought 5 minutes ago, you were going through your own free will, post what you did - that in reality you were *always* going to post it. And what you "choose" to post next, is also predetermined.

How would you know otherwise? Serious question.

if it is predetermined who/what is doing the predetermining e.g if i was always going to write this post who or what did if i didn't and i suppose when as well

 

[Chippy_boy]

Sentient beings can change direction without any external application of force though, that's the difference.

The idea that everything is predetermined is very uncomfortable for me, it lets us abdicate responsibility for our actions and abandon morality. The idea that we have freewill doesn't.

No, it doesn't.

You can choose to shoot someone this afternoon if you want to, or not.

But it is entirely possible that whatever you decide - whatever path through space and time you choose - is the same path through space and time that was already going to be chosen since there's only one path.

This may or may not be true since the physics is still not fully understood, but there's absolutely nothing you can say to disprove it.

 

[Chippy_boy]

if it is predetermined who/what is doing the predetermining e.g if i was always going to write this post who or what did if i didn't and i suppose when as well

Why does there have to be a "who".

Was the universe created in the big bang by a who? I think not, but no-one knows the answer for sure.

 

[aguero93:20]

No, it doesn't.

You can choose to shoot someone this afternoon if you want to, or not.

But if is entirely possible that whatever you decide - whatever path through space and time you choose - is the same path through space and time that was already going to be chosen since there's possibly only one path.

This may or may not be true since the physics is still not fully understood, but there's absolutely nothing you can say to disprove it.

Well there we go then, if I shot somebody it wouldn't be my fault as I'm already on a predetermined path through spacetime, I don't have a say in my actions.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Well there we go then, if I shot somebody it wouldn't be my fault as I'm already on a predetermined path through spacetime, I don't have a say in my actions.

You could choose not to. Maybe the one path through space-time has you not shooting them?

Are there alternative versions of history where Henry VIII only has one wife?

Philosophers (and Physicists) with intellects miles bigger than mine, struggle with this, so we're not alone in finding these concepts difficult.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

There are alternate history time lines where Henrietta VIII was a lesbian;...

 

[aguero93:20]

You could choose not to. Maybe the one path through space-time has you not shooting them?

Are there alternative versions of history where Henry VIII only has one wife?

Philosphers (and Physicists) with intellects miles bigger than mine, struggle with this, so we're not alone in finding these concepts difficult.

But if I chose not to, that would be predetermined too and not a choice. It's a bad rhetorical argument that consists of a theory so vague that it can be stretched to fit any rebuttal, there's no substance to it, no knowledge gained from it.

Now if a scientist ever manages to use it to accurately predict the future in detail it might be worth something.

 

[Chippy_boy]

But if I chose not to, that would be predetermined too and not a choice. It's a bad rhetorical argument that consists of a theory so vague that it can be stretched to fit any rebuttal, there's no substance to it, no knowledge gained from it.

Now if a scientist ever manages to use it to accurately predict the future in detail it might be worth something.

It isn't a vague argument. It's a direct consequence of special and general relativity. That there is no universal "now" is no longer debated, and then the rest pretty much follows.

The only thing that we can't get our heads around is why time seems to "flow". Why the past seems in the past and the future seems to be in the future. As far as I am aware, no-one's managed to explain this.