Ffs why are all bayern munich fans I've met online sit so high on their moral horses. They belittle City's win over them and like to spout 'we do it the right way' tm without ever acknowledging they're bullying every other team in bundesliga (that doesn't mind being bullied???) and still blindy believing bundesliga isn't a boring, one horse race.
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Bundesliga review part 2. the new one :)
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bayern-flo2
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We should both accept that EPL/England and Bundesliga/Germany have different cultures in doing football/business/industry/things. Germans (I'm german) tend to say that we do things better. This is not ok!
Personally I'm more interested in clubs like Hamburg, Schalke, Frankfurt than Hoffenheim, Wolfsburg, RB Leipzig oder Ingolstadt. And concerning to TV-statistics from Sky it's the same....
In my opinion the main problem is, that Bayern are also in an international competition.
In Spain you have Real Madrid and FC Barcelona who benefit from an unsocial distribution of big TV money.
In England you have a very social (I think more social than in Germany) distribution of an enormous amount of TV money.
In Germany you have a social system of distribution of less TV money but one club with a constantly good management over the last 30 years. A club which tried hard to compete with other international clubs in Europe over the past 30 years.
I've watched Bayern in the Europeans Cup in 1987 in Vienna losing to Porto. The next year losing to Real Madrid, then in the UEFA-Cup against Marradonas-Napoli and at the beginning of the 90s losing against the great Berlusconi-Milan. In 1995 with a team of youngsters losing against Ajax, 1998 against cupholders Dortmund. 1999 I was in Barcelona... And so on...
Bayern worked very hard to win the most important cup in Europe for 2 times in 30 years. While other clubs won the cup making huge losses at the same time, Bayern made profit in all the years and did no crazy stuff in order to have success like other did and disappeared after their success.
Bayern are now in the position which they worked very hard for the last 30 years and now people are moaning about it... Moan and *** yourself ;-)
P.S.: I've got respect for City and bluemoon is the only forum outside Bayern I'm reading and posting my comments. I follow your forum since 2010 and I've tried to get information about your history and although I'm not a fan of 'money-spending sheiks and stuff', I think I know what the sheik does for your club, fans and Manchester.
Personally I'm more interested in clubs like Hamburg, Schalke, Frankfurt than Hoffenheim, Wolfsburg, RB Leipzig oder Ingolstadt. And concerning to TV-statistics from Sky it's the same....
In my opinion the main problem is, that Bayern are also in an international competition.
In Spain you have Real Madrid and FC Barcelona who benefit from an unsocial distribution of big TV money.
In England you have a very social (I think more social than in Germany) distribution of an enormous amount of TV money.
In Germany you have a social system of distribution of less TV money but one club with a constantly good management over the last 30 years. A club which tried hard to compete with other international clubs in Europe over the past 30 years.
I've watched Bayern in the Europeans Cup in 1987 in Vienna losing to Porto. The next year losing to Real Madrid, then in the UEFA-Cup against Marradonas-Napoli and at the beginning of the 90s losing against the great Berlusconi-Milan. In 1995 with a team of youngsters losing against Ajax, 1998 against cupholders Dortmund. 1999 I was in Barcelona... And so on...
Bayern worked very hard to win the most important cup in Europe for 2 times in 30 years. While other clubs won the cup making huge losses at the same time, Bayern made profit in all the years and did no crazy stuff in order to have success like other did and disappeared after their success.
Bayern are now in the position which they worked very hard for the last 30 years and now people are moaning about it... Moan and *** yourself ;-)
P.S.: I've got respect for City and bluemoon is the only forum outside Bayern I'm reading and posting my comments. I follow your forum since 2010 and I've tried to get information about your history and although I'm not a fan of 'money-spending sheiks and stuff', I think I know what the sheik does for your club, fans and Manchester.
nowantads said:Ffs why are all bayern munich fans I've met online sit so high on their moral horses. They belittle City's win over them and like to spout 'we do it the right way' tm without ever acknowledging they're bullying every other team in bundesliga (that doesn't mind being bullied???) and still blindy believing bundesliga isn't a boring, one horse race.
Bullying? Please - give me an explanation for that as I just do not see it. Maybe I am blind?
Alex - City Matters
Well-Known Member
You're being harsh on FC Ingolstadt. Yes Audi's money has helped but there has always been two fairly good clubs in the city. Whereas Hoffenheim and RB Leipzig are basically new clubs.moflo said:We should both accept that EPL/England and Bundesliga/Germany have different cultures in doing football/business/industry/things. Germans (I'm german) tend to say that we do things better. This is not ok!
Personally I'm more interested in clubs like Hamburg, Schalke, Frankfurt than Hoffenheim, Wolfsburg, RB Leipzig oder Ingolstadt. And concerning to TV-statistics from Sky it's the same....
In my opinion the main problem is, that Bayern are also in an international competition.
In Spain you have Real Madrid and FC Barcelona who benefit from an unsocial distribution of big TV money.
In England you have a very social (I think more social than in Germany) distribution of an enormous amount of TV money.
In Germany you have a social system of distribution of less TV money but one club with a constantly good management over the last 30 years. A club which tried hard to compete with other international clubs in Europe over the past 30 years.
I've watched Bayern in the Europeans Cup in 1987 in Vienna losing to Porto. The next year losing to Real Madrid, then in the UEFA-Cup against Marradonas-Napoli and at the beginning of the 90s losing against the great Berlusconi-Milan. In 1995 with a team of youngsters losing against Ajax, 1998 against cupholders Dortmund. 1999 I was in Barcelona... And so on...
Bayern worked very hard to win the most important cup in Europe for 2 times in 30 years. While other clubs won the cup making huge losses at the same time, Bayern made profit in all the years and did no crazy stuff in order to have success like other did and disappeared after their success.
Bayern are now in the position which they worked very hard for the last 30 years and now people are moaning about it... Moan and *** yourself ;-)
P.S.: I've got respect for City and bluemoon is the only forum outside Bayern I'm reading and posting my comments. I follow your forum since 2010 and I've tried to get information about your history and although I'm not a fan of 'money-spending sheiks and stuff', I think I know what the sheik does for your club, fans and Manchester.
Alex - City Matters
Well-Known Member
Is the Serie A a one horsed race? Juve have won it every year since 2012, Bayern only started winning the Bundesliga in 2013.
The constant jibe about the Bundesliga being a one team league, is quite frankly doing my head in. Yes, the title race has become a bit lob sided in recent years; but the same can be said about the Premier League at times. Arsenal won it a few years on the bounce. They even went unbeaten, was a one horse league then? No.
The main reason why Bayern are in the position they're in today, is their good management and other clubs mismanagement. Ruhr and definitely SuperCrystal will agree that if Schalke had invested wisely, as had teams like Leverkusen and maybe even Eintracht Frankfurt and 'Gladbach; they'd have overtaken Doofmund. (That's for all you Royal Blues :) )
The way I see it, is that Bayern will continue to dominate and the same party line will continue. Until other teams sort their acts out, this will carry on. The 2013 Champions League final led to a lot of over reaction in regards to the Bundesliga. Whereas there are probably flaws in the German system, having studied both ours and theirs; I know which I'd prefer at this current time.
The constant jibe about the Bundesliga being a one team league, is quite frankly doing my head in. Yes, the title race has become a bit lob sided in recent years; but the same can be said about the Premier League at times. Arsenal won it a few years on the bounce. They even went unbeaten, was a one horse league then? No.
The main reason why Bayern are in the position they're in today, is their good management and other clubs mismanagement. Ruhr and definitely SuperCrystal will agree that if Schalke had invested wisely, as had teams like Leverkusen and maybe even Eintracht Frankfurt and 'Gladbach; they'd have overtaken Doofmund. (That's for all you Royal Blues :) )
The way I see it, is that Bayern will continue to dominate and the same party line will continue. Until other teams sort their acts out, this will carry on. The 2013 Champions League final led to a lot of over reaction in regards to the Bundesliga. Whereas there are probably flaws in the German system, having studied both ours and theirs; I know which I'd prefer at this current time.
Bembeltown
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I think we have discussed this whole topic already a thousand times on here and I discussed this with CptAidan88 on the way down to Hoffenheim as well....
There is no "best" concept neither in Germany nor in England.
I personally like the competition at the top in England and that there is a true title race, but then on the other hand you guys are paying the price for watching the "best league in the world".
You have to pay horrendous prices for tickets, the atmosphere is most of the time flat and the average age of a PL fan is most likely 40+ simply because the young folks can´t afford to go to games anymore.
The whole owner concept can work out amazing like it does for City (you really won the lottery with the Sheikh and long may it last), but as multiple other samples have already shown it can go tits up as well.
In Germany we are in the lucky position that football is still affordable (even though prices are increased as well, even for Dortmund and we know that Dortmund is THE be all, end all of footballing culture, Echte Liebe (True Love etc.). The Dortmund part was sarcasm by the way....;)
Low prices and the possibility to stand at games means that a lot of young folks can afford tickets and that the atmosphere is usually a bit better than you would see in the PL.
Is the league boring and a one horse race? Yes it is...if everything you care about is who wins the league. I personally don´t give a flying fuck if Bayern win the league again and dominate everything.
Outside of the title race I think the league is pretty exciting and even the underdogs can beat the "big" teams on their day, which is one of the reasons why everything behind Bayern is tightly packed together. You win one day and are up in the CL spots, you lose the next matchday and you are down in the relegation zone so to speak.
The football on display is most of the time of a good standard as well, and there is at the moment a stunning amount of young talents in almost every team of the league.
Of course I would love to see my own team to be able to compete at the top however this won´t happen even if our management doesnt fuck up. Bayern can still buy every player they want and will be able to do so in the future.
When we recently had a relatively successfull period (reaching the EL which is some achievement for our own standards) the team got completely dismantled a season later and our young star players got lured to Wolfsburg and Bayern.
What exactly are we supposed to do about that? Money rules the world and I personally can understand players trying to make the most out of their career and get as much money in as possible. In the end you never know when your career will be over...so no harsh feelings from my side.
The Bundesliga will change a lot in the coming years and I personally think that the league will consist of a lot more plastic clubs. We got Wolfsburg, Leverkusen and Hoffenheim already, Red Bull Leipzig will join soon and you never know what will happen with Ingolstadt.
All those clubs will eventually increase the competition for the league title as they can spend tons of money as well, but at what expense?
Already today the matches against mentioned clubs are about as boring as they can get...Wolfsburg is a shit place to go to, they hardly ever sell out their ground and when we play at home against clubs like Hoffenheim/Wolfsburg etc. the away section is deserted as the hardly ever bring any fans over.
If thats the future of the top tier I am not exactly getting excited and if I had to choose between a plastic Bundesliga 1 and a Bundesliga 2 with all the old guard (Kaiserslautern, Köln, Hamburg, Frankfurt, Dresden, Stuttgart etc.) I knew what I would pick....
Anyway! Happy new year to everyone!
Lets hope it will be a good one no matter which club/league you support. In the end there are more important things than football out there...even if it is hard to believe. ;)
There is no "best" concept neither in Germany nor in England.
I personally like the competition at the top in England and that there is a true title race, but then on the other hand you guys are paying the price for watching the "best league in the world".
You have to pay horrendous prices for tickets, the atmosphere is most of the time flat and the average age of a PL fan is most likely 40+ simply because the young folks can´t afford to go to games anymore.
The whole owner concept can work out amazing like it does for City (you really won the lottery with the Sheikh and long may it last), but as multiple other samples have already shown it can go tits up as well.
In Germany we are in the lucky position that football is still affordable (even though prices are increased as well, even for Dortmund and we know that Dortmund is THE be all, end all of footballing culture, Echte Liebe (True Love etc.). The Dortmund part was sarcasm by the way....;)
Low prices and the possibility to stand at games means that a lot of young folks can afford tickets and that the atmosphere is usually a bit better than you would see in the PL.
Is the league boring and a one horse race? Yes it is...if everything you care about is who wins the league. I personally don´t give a flying fuck if Bayern win the league again and dominate everything.
Outside of the title race I think the league is pretty exciting and even the underdogs can beat the "big" teams on their day, which is one of the reasons why everything behind Bayern is tightly packed together. You win one day and are up in the CL spots, you lose the next matchday and you are down in the relegation zone so to speak.
The football on display is most of the time of a good standard as well, and there is at the moment a stunning amount of young talents in almost every team of the league.
Of course I would love to see my own team to be able to compete at the top however this won´t happen even if our management doesnt fuck up. Bayern can still buy every player they want and will be able to do so in the future.
When we recently had a relatively successfull period (reaching the EL which is some achievement for our own standards) the team got completely dismantled a season later and our young star players got lured to Wolfsburg and Bayern.
What exactly are we supposed to do about that? Money rules the world and I personally can understand players trying to make the most out of their career and get as much money in as possible. In the end you never know when your career will be over...so no harsh feelings from my side.
The Bundesliga will change a lot in the coming years and I personally think that the league will consist of a lot more plastic clubs. We got Wolfsburg, Leverkusen and Hoffenheim already, Red Bull Leipzig will join soon and you never know what will happen with Ingolstadt.
All those clubs will eventually increase the competition for the league title as they can spend tons of money as well, but at what expense?
Already today the matches against mentioned clubs are about as boring as they can get...Wolfsburg is a shit place to go to, they hardly ever sell out their ground and when we play at home against clubs like Hoffenheim/Wolfsburg etc. the away section is deserted as the hardly ever bring any fans over.
If thats the future of the top tier I am not exactly getting excited and if I had to choose between a plastic Bundesliga 1 and a Bundesliga 2 with all the old guard (Kaiserslautern, Köln, Hamburg, Frankfurt, Dresden, Stuttgart etc.) I knew what I would pick....
Anyway! Happy new year to everyone!
Lets hope it will be a good one no matter which club/league you support. In the end there are more important things than football out there...even if it is hard to believe. ;)
MCFCHOWELL said:Is the Serie A a one horsed race? Juve have won it every year since 2012, Bayern only started winning the Bundesliga in 2013.
The constant jibe about the Bundesliga being a one team league, is quite frankly doing my head in. Yes, the title race has become a bit lob sided in recent years; but the same can be said about the Premier League at times. Arsenal won it a few years on the bounce. They even went unbeaten, was a one horse league then? No.
The main reason why Bayern are in the position they're in today, is their good management and other clubs mismanagement. Ruhr and definitely SuperCrystal will agree that if Schalke had invested wisely, as had teams like Leverkusen and maybe even Eintracht Frankfurt and 'Gladbach; they'd have overtaken Doofmund. (That's for all you Royal Blues :) )
The way I see it, is that Bayern will continue to dominate and the same party line will continue. Until other teams sort their acts out, this will carry on. The 2013 Champions League final led to a lot of over reaction in regards to the Bundesliga. Whereas there are probably flaws in the German system, having studied both ours and theirs; I know which I'd prefer at this current time.
If you're going on the front foot mate at least get your facts right. Arsenal have never won back to back Premier League titles.
As for Bayern they've f@cked their domestic league. One of the biggest backers of FFP, I wonder why?
FFP didn't destroy domestic leagues, UEFA Champions League did that when all that money started pouring in to the top teams who regularly qualify leaving everyone else fruitless. FFP was just the icing on the cake so to speak which holds together what was already a fucked up system. European football hasn't had true parity for decades and blaming FFP soley for that(though it is still at fault)is laughable at best. You just have to look at American sports to see what it takes for true parity in sports to exist. They literally make the rules so the league stays unpredictable with the NFL being the best example.
supercrystal7
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Bayern taking Gotze was a bit underhanded, but as MCFCHOWELL says, I don't believe that's why the Bundesliga is in the state it is in.cookster said:MCFCHOWELL said:Is the Serie A a one horsed race? Juve have won it every year since 2012, Bayern only started winning the Bundesliga in 2013.
The constant jibe about the Bundesliga being a one team league, is quite frankly doing my head in. Yes, the title race has become a bit lob sided in recent years; but the same can be said about the Premier League at times. Arsenal won it a few years on the bounce. They even went unbeaten, was a one horse league then? No.
The main reason why Bayern are in the position they're in today, is their good management and other clubs mismanagement. Ruhr and definitely SuperCrystal will agree that if Schalke had invested wisely, as had teams like Leverkusen and maybe even Eintracht Frankfurt and 'Gladbach; they'd have overtaken Doofmund. (That's for all you Royal Blues :) )
The way I see it, is that Bayern will continue to dominate and the same party line will continue. Until other teams sort their acts out, this will carry on. The 2013 Champions League final led to a lot of over reaction in regards to the Bundesliga. Whereas there are probably flaws in the German system, having studied both ours and theirs; I know which I'd prefer at this current time.
If you're going on the front foot mate at least get your facts right. Arsenal have never won back to back Premier League titles.
As for Bayern they've f@cked their domestic league. One of the biggest backers of FFP, I wonder why?
Let's just compare Tottenham and Schalke. Schalke actually have been bringing in more money than Tottenham. Schalke also have one of the best youth systems in Europe. They have had the likes of Gundogan, Ozil, Neuer, Howedes and Draxler all come through and all under 26. Now where do you think Tottenham would be if they had such players? The Schalke team practically produces itself, but yet they have not been able to become a top European force.
No system is perfect, but more than anything the Bundesliga needs the other top clubs to be run well.
BayernMan said:FFP didn't destroy domestic leagues, UEFA Champions League did that when all that money started pouring in to the top teams who regularly qualify leaving everyone else fruitless. FFP was just the icing on the cake so to speak which holds together what was already a fucked up system. European football hasn't had true parity for decades and blaming FFP soley for that(though it is still at fault)is laughable at best. You just have to look at American sports to see what it takes for true parity in sports to exist. They literally make the rules so the league stays unpredictable with the NFL being the best example.
So FFP has no knock on effect to the domestic league? So why can't my beloved Blues spend 100M in the January window to help secure the Premier League?
The current system operated in Germany will have Bayern dominate for a decade.
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