Bundesliga review part 2. the new one :)

[BillyShears]

Klopp wants to come to England. Get it done Txiki!

PS. I love Pellegrini so it's no reflection on the boss. But Klopp should be next.

Oh - you think that pressing and counterpressing are the best playmakers?

You need to get rid of most of your players... ;)

Apparently they're too old and need to be replaced anyway. :)

Sorry I'm a Klopp fanboy. Unashamedly.

 

[supercrystal7]

United has destroyed Kagawa and Real Sahin. That were the two best players of their German Champions seasons (they were 19 and 25 points behind Bayern the seasons after).

We all know the Bundesliga and Bayern were not the team they would become. Selling Kagawa and Sahin was good business, but Dortmund had the money and opportunity to replace Lewandowski and Gotze.

Gotze's replacements Kagawa/Mkhitaryan=30 million
Lewandowski's replacements Immobile/Ramos=25 million (+the 25 million they would have got from actually selling him).

It's bad for the Bundesliga unless Wolfsburg become a real force. It's bad for Bayern as well, because they have a lot of players to replace soon and are going to struggle to attract players to play in the Bundesliga.

I have told it to you before - it is a thing of the other clubs. I do not really believe that Bayern will always be the Untouchables - they will always be in the mix and favourites - but other teams will have chances again in the next seasons.

But the Bundesliga needs a big Bayern or a team that is able to compete on top of Europe, too. And that is difficult anyways if you look at the TV money the EPL clubs plus Real and Barcelona get.

It does not help if Bayern looses the quality - there is others that have to catch up. Wolfsburg would be one of it. Even if they do not have a big stadium - I can see them getting a lot of international fans.

But time will tell.

No I agree, but when the Bundesliga loses quality so will Bayern. Dortmund blew their own chances.

However, how it's going to be very difficult to replace Schweinsteiger/Ribery/Lahm/Robben (arguably the best in the world) if you the Bundesliga is seen as a dead league. So Bayern will drop in quality like they did 10 years ago.

To be respected the Bundesliga either needs Bayern dominating Europe or at least two teams making CL quarters/semi's.

It's a shame, because the weaker teams in the Bundesliga are stronger than in other leagues.

 

[cleavers]

United has destroyed Kagawa and Real Sahin. That were the two best players of their German Champions seasons (they were 19 and 25 points behind Bayern the seasons after).

We all know the Bundesliga and Bayern were not the team they would become. Selling Kagawa and Sahin was good business, but Dortmund had the money and opportunity to replace Lewandowski and Gotze.

Gotze's replacements Kagawa/Mkhitaryan=30 million
Lewandowski's replacements Immobile/Ramos=25 million (+the 25 million they would have got from actually selling him).

It's bad for the Bundesliga unless Wolfsburg become a real force. It's bad for Bayern as well, because they have a lot of players to replace soon and are going to struggle to attract players to play in the Bundesliga.

I have told it to you before - it is a thing of the other clubs. I do not really believe that Bayern will always be the Untouchables - they will always be in the mix and favourites - but other teams will have chances again in the next seasons.

But the Bundesliga needs a big Bayern or a team that is able to compete on top of Europe, too. And that is difficult anyways if you look at the TV money the EPL clubs plus Real and Barcelona get.

It does not help if Bayern looses the quality - there is others that have to catch up. Wolfsburg would be one of it. Even if they do not have a big stadium - I can see them getting a lot of international fans.

But time will tell.

The Bundesliga also needs competition, and losing Dortmund as main competition isn't good.

For those of us who don't know, is there a parachute payment if you get relegated ? How serious is it for Dortmund losing Bundesliga status, on top of losing CL status (though they could of course still win that and qualify).

 

[Maldeika]

We all know the Bundesliga and Bayern were not the team they would become. Selling Kagawa and Sahin was good business, but Dortmund had the money and opportunity to replace Lewandowski and Gotze.

Gotze's replacements Kagawa/Mkhitaryan=30 million
Lewandowski's replacements Immobile/Ramos=25 million (+the 25 million they would have got from actually selling him).

It's bad for the Bundesliga unless Wolfsburg become a real force. It's bad for Bayern as well, because they have a lot of players to replace soon and are going to struggle to attract players to play in the Bundesliga.

I have told it to you before - it is a thing of the other clubs. I do not really believe that Bayern will always be the Untouchables - they will always be in the mix and favourites - but other teams will have chances again in the next seasons.

But the Bundesliga needs a big Bayern or a team that is able to compete on top of Europe, too. And that is difficult anyways if you look at the TV money the EPL clubs plus Real and Barcelona get.

It does not help if Bayern looses the quality - there is others that have to catch up. Wolfsburg would be one of it. Even if they do not have a big stadium - I can see them getting a lot of international fans.

But time will tell.

The Bundesliga also needs competition, and losing Dortmund as main competition isn't good.

For those of us who don't know, is there a parachute payment if you get relegated ? How serious is it for Dortmund losing Bundesliga status, on top of losing CL status (though they could of course still win that and qualify).

No parachute payments. But the 1st and 2nd league clubs share the TV contract.

If today the Bundesliga was over (and Dortmund would stay 18th) the distribution of the money for the incountry-TV contract in the next season would be according to the following webpage

http://www.fernsehgelder.de/

Look at the tab "zweite Liga" for Dortmund...

---------------

You can tell me so much about the Bundesliga not being competitive - I never enjoyed watching the Bundesliga and a lot matches as much as I do this season. Nothing is predictable. I watch my Bayern matches - and have even more fun when I watch the comedy show with the other teams...

It is a little different so - at Bayern matches I have to watch everything - with the other matches it is a lot about writing in forums "enjoying" it together...

I guess you felt the same with United last season - now think that they would not have dropped to 7th spot but would have played like Dortmund...

As a Bayern fan and after the last seasons watching Dortmund on self-destruction mode is very amusing and the actors in that story just add to it. Last season it was just Hoffenheim who had this great matches with so much goals - this season you start to see great technical football from Werder Bremen again lately - just as an example.

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

For me the demise of Dortmund opens a wider narrative.

We keep hearing about the financial obligations of the Bundesliga model so why do so many of the German clubs resemble Newcastle in the way they are structured?

Hamburg are supposedly one of the biggest clubs, yet just like Dortmund they have done nothing, but sell their best players for almost ten years. Now they’re stuck with the ageing Van de Vaart and the return of former favourite, but five years older Olic.

Compare their team with the power and pace of the outfit that slaughtered City in the first leg in 2009 (i know we fought back in the second leg, but let’s not kid ourselves)

It’s the same at Werder Bremen who I saw outplay Barcelona, yet lose rather unluckily in 2005. One minute they’re dominating the Champions League and then suddenly they’re relying on cast-off veterans. Where did all the money go?

Don't get me wrong. I love German football and I'm watching a few games in March. It's just that somewhere along the line there seems to be a huge contradiction.

 

[cleavers]

No parachute payments. But the 1st and 2nd league clubs share the TV contract.

If today the Bundesliga was over (and Dortmund would stay 18th) the distribution of the money for the incountry-TV contract in the next season would be according to the following webpage

http://www.fernsehgelder.de/

Look at the tab "zweite Liga" for Dortmund.

So not such a big discrepancy in domestic football, but dropping out of the CL will be big.

I guess you felt the same with United last season - now think that they would not have dropped to 7th spot but would have played like Dortmund...

We do dream of it.

Seriously though, there is something good about a league that can be so varied, but not really if one team always stays dominantly ahead, and I can't currently see how Bayern can fail so much as Dortmund for instance. united threatened this dominance a couple of times here, but never quite managed to pull that far ahead (thankfully), good that that historically 'big' clubs in the Bundesliga can fall so quickly too, and that teams like Augsburg can rise from nowhere. We have had it here with Charlton, Wimbledon, Wigan, Reading etc on the up, and City, Villa, Sheffield Wednesday, Wolves, Leeds even on the way down, but its harder to sustain here for the smaller club, it seems (from the outside) easier in Germany.

I've followed a German team for more than 30 years, having lived there for 5 years in the 1980's, so I have always followed the Bundesliga to some degree or other (and much lower recently sadly), having seen that club win the German cup, play european football, and be briefly near the top of the league, so I find it interesting when clubs with much bigger fanbases and revenues, are struggling, like Koln, Hamburg, and 'gladbach, clubs that were (in my youth anyway) big names in German and even european football, I even hope that one day the club I follow might make it back (unlikely as it is), because if Augsburg can then there is hope.

 

[carlos tevez is a blue]

Re: Dare they

Klopp wants to come to England. Get it done Txiki!

PS. I love Pellegrini so it's no reflection on the boss. But Klopp should be next.

He's led Dortmund to bottom of the league, he's spent a fucking fortune on Ramos, Ji, Ginter and Mickytarzan or whatever he's called, he plays a striker as a full back in Durm, there defence is even more of a shambles than Bottlepool's, I suppose it's cool to want a hipster manager like Klopp or even Bielsa though.

The Emperor's new clothes is apt for Klopp,

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRJEFHzHjL4[/video]

He has a funny song though.

 

[BillyShears]

Klopp wants to come to England. Get it done Txiki!

PS. I love Pellegrini so it's no reflection on the boss. But Klopp should be next.

He's led Dortmund to bottom of the league, he's spent a fucking fortune on Ramos, Ji, Ginter and Mickytarzan or whatever he's called, he plays a striker as a full back in Durm, there defence is even more of a shambles than Bottlepool's, I suppose it's cool to want a hipster manager like Klopp or even Bielsa though.

The Emperor's new clothes is apt for Klopp,

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRJEFHzHjL4[/video]

He has a funny song though.

Back to back Bundesliga titles suggest he's anything but.

 

[carlos tevez is a blue]

Klopp wants to come to England. Get it done Txiki!

PS. I love Pellegrini so it's no reflection on the boss. But Klopp should be next.

He's led Dortmund to bottom of the league, he's spent a fucking fortune on Ramos, Ji, Ginter and Mickytarzan or whatever he's called, he plays a striker as a full back in Durm, there defence is even more of a shambles than Bottlepool's, I suppose it's cool to want a hipster manager like Klopp or even Bielsa though.

The Emperor's new clothes is apt for Klopp,

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRJEFHzHjL4[/video]

He has a funny song though.

Back to back Bundesliga titles suggest he's anything but.

And at least one German FA cup and a couple of German Community shields but this season has shown that Klopp can't rebuild a great team, I'm far from a Pep fanboy but he has shown he can, you could argue since Mourinho came back to Chelsea he has with the quality signing's he's mad and eased out Lampard and Cole, it's not as if Klopp's been let down by not being giving a dime, Mickywhatereverhescalled cost 30 million and he's basically Clint Dempsey with a long name.

 

[Maldeika]

For me the demise of Dortmund opens a wider narrative.

We keep hearing about the financial obligations of the Bundesliga model so why do so many of the German clubs resemble Newcastle in the way they are structured?

Hamburg are supposedly one of the biggest clubs, yet just like Dortmund they have done nothing, but sell their best players for almost ten years. Now they’re stuck with the ageing Van de Vaart and the return of former favourite, but five years older Olic.

Compare their team with the power and pace of the outfit that slaughtered City in the first leg in 2009 (i know we fought back in the second leg, but let’s not kid ourselves)

It’s the same at Werder Bremen who I saw outplay Barcelona, yet lose rather unluckily in 2005. One minute they’re dominating the Champions League and then suddenly they’re relying on cast-off veterans. Where did all the money go?

Don't get me wrong. I love German football and I'm watching a few games in March. It's just that somewhere along the line there seems to be a huge contradiction.

But there is different reason. In Hamburg it is pure mismanagement. They had money - they even still have a big budget. A lot different managers that bought different players that did not fit with the next manager. And that team somehow has a mentality problem.

Bremen - usually is an underdog that has long played a role that a club from a smaller city without a financial backer seldom does. Very good management and purchases (the manager of Wolfsburg was the manager of Bremen then) and success in Europe added to that. Failure to get to Europe, sale of key players, some bad cheaper transfers got them into trouble and on a downward spirale. But - right now they look better again. They have a good offense right now even if still young - could be that they are on the way up again. Time will tell.