Bundesliga review part 2. the new one :)

[Innsbruckblue]

Can only second what Aidan wrote and maybe he manages to bring the point across better than I am able to do.

But in the end RB doesn´t care about football, but about advertising their product.

Insbruckblue mentioned that the reactions from the fan side are hysteric, however there are now more and more officials raising their voice against RB as well (coaches, managers etc.).

Its not just the matchgoing Fans or Ultras....Especially the point about RB signing young players for absurd fees is a problem. That and shenanigans like transfering players between RB teams to bend the rules of contracts.

If "projects" like Red Bull are the future of football then I am happy to pass on that experience. If that means that I need to follow my club down to the 2nd or 3rd division again, well so be it.

At least I will be able to see proper teams with history, fans with passion and affordable football while the plastics can occupy the first tier, sit there in silence and pay stupid amounts of money and enjoy their CL football.

I'm not being funny here, Bembeltown, but if you read through what you've written, you could be a fan of Arsenal, Liverpool or Utd complaining about City. Quite strange to read on a City forum.

 

[Bembeltown]

I am aware that my opinion is not popular on here and its indeed strange that I post this on a City forum.

However I started to follow or take an interest in City back in the day when Uwe Rösler was playing for City.

Back then there was an article in my local newspaper about the "Uwe´s granddad bombed the Stretford end" T-Shirts that you guys made for the derby. I found the idea pretty hilarious (German newspaper didnt think it was funny, because you know...dont mention the war etc.).

Thats how my interest in City started, so it was a couple of years before the Sheikh stepped in.

Other than that I do understand that the way football is run in England is different to Germany and that a "sugardaddy" is pretty much required for any team to break into the old guard, that was lucky enough to be successfull when the PL was founded.

I have accepted this and I am happy to explain this to my friends who often ask my why I even support City, because all they know from the media is that City is ruining football etc.

RB in Germany however is a different situation and it is something that needs to be stopped. Football should be about football and not about advertising some disgusting soda under the Umbrella of football.

RB is currently like a tank steamrolling their way to the top, leaving torched earth with the only goal to position their brand in the CL.

I know that I am walking a thin line by stating this...but I was wondering what would happen to City supporters if the sheikh decided to rename the club to something stupid like "Manchester Ethiads", provides you with a set of new colours, a new logo featuring no eagle/ship but the Ethiad logo instead.

Would people on here just accept it for the sake of success and continue to follow "City" or would people call it quits?

Would it still be "your" team or just feel artifical and wrong? I am pretty sure that some of the old fans would jump ship and not go to games anymore, but unfortunately for every "real fan" that leaves, there are are 2 or 3 "consumers" ligning up for tickets....

Gruß nach Österreich! ;)

 

[Bembeltown]

http://thebundesligauk.wordpress.com/2014/07/30/red-bull-revolution/

My opinion on Red Bull Leipzig, and whether they'll be good or bad for German football.

All feedback is appreciated.

Well my stance on RB is clear and there is nothing good about the project at all, but we discussed this already multiple times on here. Some people think its what German Football needs, others will disagree.

Two points that you didnt mention:

1. RB basically destroyed the two local clubs Lok Leipzig and Chemie Leipzig as well. Yes, one club is full of Nazi scum and the other one is full of left wing scum, but it doesnt change the fact that there were two clubs around in Leipzig with history which will disappear over the next years.

2. The "business" RB does shows already how much they care about financial fair play and football as such. There was this one player in Austria who was playing for Rapid Wien. red Bull Salzburg wanted to buy him, but he was not allowed to transfer within Austria. So RB Leipzig bought him and loaned him out to Salzburg immediately.

Same with spending obscene amounts of money on young players and leaving other clubs no chance to sign them/ruining the prices.

Red Bull needs to be stopped by the DFB, and its not just the fans who complain about them, but coaches and managers as well.

To be honest, I am against what Red Bull do, not the fact that they spend money but the fact it's just a commercial ploy for their products. However, I do still recognise the positives for the area and Eastern Germany on a whole.
I would say that, the negatives do outweigh the positives though.


Btw, who was the Austrian players you mentioned?

Still didnt get back to you on the player. Its a guy called Marcel Sabitzer

 

[Innsbruckblue]

I am aware that my opinion is not popular on here and its indeed strange that I post this on a City forum.

However I started to follow or take an interest in City back in the day when Uwe Rösler was playing for City.

Back then there was an article in my local newspaper about the "Uwe´s granddad bombed the Stretford end" T-Shirts that you guys made for the derby. I found the idea pretty hilarious (German newspaper didnt think it was funny, because you know...dont mention the war etc.).

Thats how my interest in City started, so it was a couple of years before the Sheikh stepped in.

Other than that I do understand that the way football is run in England is different to Germany and that a "sugardaddy" is pretty much required for any team to break into the old guard, that was lucky enough to be successfull when the PL was founded.

I have accepted this and I am happy to explain this to my friends who often ask my why I even support City, because all they know from the media is that City is ruining football etc.

RB in Germany however is a different situation and it is something that needs to be stopped. Football should be about football and not about advertising some disgusting soda under the Umbrella of football.

RB is currently like a tank steamrolling their way to the top, leaving torched earth with the only goal to position their brand in the CL.

I know that I am walking a thin line by stating this...but I was wondering what would happen to City supporters if the sheikh decided to rename the club to something stupid like "Manchester Ethiads", provides you with a set of new colours, a new logo featuring no eagle/ship but the Ethiad logo instead.

Would people on here just accept it for the sake of success and continue to follow "City" or would people call it quits?

Would it still be "your" team or just feel artifical and wrong? I am pretty sure that some of the old fans would jump ship and not go to games anymore, but unfortunately for every "real fan" that leaves, there are are 2 or 3 "consumers" ligning up for tickets....

Gruß nach Österreich! ;)

Good question! I would hate it, and would definitely be against anything like that happening. A few of my friends back in Leipzig hate RB for the same reason you mention, however, many of them have actually switched allegiances from Lok to RB. Perhaps in desperation for some family-friendly football.
At least you're honest about your position, and can finally show us your reasoning for it!
To tell you the truth, I've tried and tried to get fully behind RB, but find it difficult. I'm not sure if it's because of the reasons other fans don't like them, or because they play in red and white!

You're a Frankfurt fan, I think? Hope you beat Bayern this season!

Griaß di aus Tirol! (I think that's how they say it, still learning Austrian. Just a little different from Sächsisch)

 

[Bembeltown]

You're a Frankfurt fan, I think? Hope you beat Bayern this season!

Griaß di aus Tirol! (I think that's how they say it, still learning Austrian. Just a little different from Sächsisch)

Yepp, I am supporting the mighty (cough) Eagles...Not so sure about getting any points against Bayern though. As long as we somehow manage to stay up I am happy.

Austrian is indeed just a little different than Sächsisch, but the sound makes all the difference. Sächsisch makes the hairs on my arms stand up....Guess its similar to the horrors of a scouse accent to a Manc ;)

Did you adopt Wacker as your Austrian team by chance? Frankfurt Fans have a friendship with Insbruck and I actually was thinking about going over for some groundhopping one day as I don´t have any grounds in Austria yet.

 

[City_Sean]

Who have Dortmuns signed this season aside from Immobile, and can anyone actually see a side challengjng Bayern.

 

[Bembeltown]

Who have Dortmuns signed this season aside from Immobile, and can anyone actually see a side challengjng Bayern.

They have signed Immobile, Sergio Ramos, Dong-Wong JI and Matthias Ginter.

Not sure if they will be able to compensate losing Lewandowski with those signings.

If they stay injury free they might be able to keep up with Bayern until the winter break, but I am pretty sure they will crumble afterwards as Bayern´s bench is ridiculous.

Can´t see any other team challenge Bayern unfortunately.

 

[Innsbruckblue]

You're a Frankfurt fan, I think? Hope you beat Bayern this season!

Griaß di aus Tirol! (I think that's how they say it, still learning Austrian. Just a little different from Sächsisch)

Yepp, I am supporting the mighty (cough) Eagles...Not so sure about getting any points against Bayern though. As long as we somehow manage to stay up I am happy.

Austrian is indeed just a little different than Sächsisch, but the sound makes all the difference. Sächsisch makes the hairs on my arms stand up....Guess its similar to the horrors of a scouse accent to a Manc ;)

Did you adopt Wacker as your Austrian team by chance? Frankfurt Fans have a friendship with Insbruck and I actually was thinking about going over for some groundhopping one day as I don´t have any grounds in Austria yet.

That would explain why I've seen those DHL stickers everywhere with Frankfurt written on them! We actually live right round the corner from the Tivoli, but I've only been here a couple of months, so not had the chance to get to a game yet. I think Wacker have two home games this coming week, so I might take a walk over. We managed to watch Werder against Bilbao last week in Zillertal tho', a proper tiny old ground with standing room only!
If you are in IBK at any time, just let me know and we'll catch a game.

 

[Ruhr]

Can´t see any other team challenge Bayern unfortunately.

this season will be not be very different from the last one, i´m afraid

 

[Rhineland]

The club has no tradition - this is indeed true. But what's the problem? Every new club has to build its own tradition.

It is no CLUB for a start

The club exists to sell a drink - mmm, Leverkusen exists to promote Bayer, Wolfsburg to promote VW. Every club has shirt advertising, stadium naming rights, etc. Therefore, every club promotes a product.

Same here. Leverkusen are no CLUB. There is a difference in clubs negotiating advertising with companies/sponsers and companies who just built their own CLUBS for this purpose

The club is destroying football traditions - if football traditions mean attracting Nazis to games and attacking women and children, then let's keep tradition. If tradition means having the same teams forever at the top of the Bundesliga, then fine. If tradition mean Bayern winning exactly half the Bundesliga titles, so be it.
The club goes against the 50+1 rule - fair point. But what exactly does this rule provide, except for an extremely limited say in the way the club is run?

I'm not German, but have lived in German-speaking countries for 12 years. I've followed German football for longer. I've researched the history of football in both the West and the East, and yet, to this day, nobody has been able to explain to me why RB is such a bad thing for German football. As I've already said, RB has revived Leipzig's passion and love for football, but we could of course go back to the days of no money in eastern football, with run-down stadia and rampant hooliganism.
If you can convince me, with reasonably-supported arguments, as to why RB is such a bad thing for German football, I'm all ears.

 

[Rhineland]

If they had called the team FC Leipzig, or something neutral and not had such a ridiculous badge, then there would not have been much if any opposition. They could have got sufficient brand awareness through shirt sponsorship and stadium naming rights etc, and the team would represent the city rather than the company who own it.

I can appreciate the people of Leipzig feeling differently but unfortunately the negatives massively outweigh the positives for me, and it leaves a really bad taste in the mouth.

fair point

 

[Rhineland]

I am aware that my opinion is not popular on here and its indeed strange that I post this on a City forum.

However I started to follow or take an interest in City back in the day when Uwe Rösler was playing for City.

Back then there was an article in my local newspaper about the "Uwe´s granddad bombed the Stretford end" T-Shirts that you guys made for the derby. I found the idea pretty hilarious (German newspaper didnt think it was funny, because you know...dont mention the war etc.).

Thats how my interest in City started, so it was a couple of years before the Sheikh stepped in.

Other than that I do understand that the way football is run in England is different to Germany and that a "sugardaddy" is pretty much required for any team to break into the old guard, that was lucky enough to be successfull when the PL was founded.

I have accepted this and I am happy to explain this to my friends who often ask my why I even support City, because all they know from the media is that City is ruining football etc.

RB in Germany however is a different situation and it is something that needs to be stopped. Football should be about football and not about advertising some disgusting soda under the Umbrella of football.

RB is currently like a tank steamrolling their way to the top, leaving torched earth with the only goal to position their brand in the CL.

I know that I am walking a thin line by stating this...but I was wondering what would happen to City supporters if the sheikh decided to rename the club to something stupid like "Manchester Ethiads", provides you with a set of new colours, a new logo featuring no eagle/ship but the Ethiad logo instead.

Would people on here just accept it for the sake of success and continue to follow "City" or would people call it quits?

Would it still be "your" team or just feel artifical and wrong? I am pretty sure that some of the old fans would jump ship and not go to games anymore, but unfortunately for every "real fan" that leaves, there are are 2 or 3 "consumers" ligning up for tickets....

Gruß nach Österreich! ;)

well spoken, Bembel.

I am Arsenal with a soft spot for City since that Immel/Rösler/Gaudino/Frontzeck-days. Kinky and Dickov my favourite players though. And after all, it's Alan Ball... so apart from the red part... 100%

 

[Innsbruckblue]

Rhineland, can you explain to us how both RB and Leverkusen are not football clubs? This sounds suspiciously to me like opinion and not fact. Would much appreciate being enlightened here.

 

[Rhineland]

Rhineland, can you explain to us how both RB and Leverkusen are not football clubs? This sounds suspiciously to me like opinion and not fact. Would much appreciate being enlightened here.

Touche. They are clubs indeed. It's just my opinion that they don't qualify as proper clubs as their existence only serves one purpose - advertising, promotion, image etc. for the companies...

Happy to help

 

[Innsbruckblue]

Rhineland, can you explain to us how both RB and Leverkusen are not football clubs? This sounds suspiciously to me like opinion and not fact. Would much appreciate being enlightened here.

Touche. They are clubs indeed. It's just my opinion that they don't qualify as proper clubs as their existence only serves one purpose - advertising, promotion, image etc. for the companies...

Happy to help

Thank you. We all have different opinions, but I'm the kind of guy who likes to see opinions backed up with sound reasoning, whether I agree or not. Must be my something to do with my job.

 

[Rhineland]

opinion might lack sound reasoning, but I could tell a hundred 'true fairytales' about how Leverkusen have been trying by buying their status quo...

how they spent millions and millions more than any other bundesligaclubs combined, how they changed their name, their crest to suggest 'tradition' e.g., how they killed off Uerdingen when they became the more successful club compared to the companies headquarters, how they bought players and ex-player from Cologne, how they signed youth players, how they changed place/reduced the away section a couple of times, how they advertised in Cologne, how they gave tickets away for free to their employers ("ausverschenkt!"), how they ask for ridiculous low prices for their own 'fans' (muppets) but ask triple that for away fans etc, etc, etc

I always believed Leverkusen was the worst case scenario I could think of - RB proved me wrong here

 

[Rhineland]

off to watch the last half hour of the Dauerwerbesendung :-)

 

[Innsbruckblue]

opinion might lack sound reasoning, but I could tell a hundred 'true fairytales' about how Leverkusen have been trying by buying their status quo...

how they spent millions and millions more than any other bundesligaclubs combined, how they changed their name, their crest to suggest 'tradition' e.g., how they killed off Uerdingen when they became the more successful club compared to the companies headquarters, how they bought players and ex-player from Cologne, how they signed youth players, how they changed place/reduced the away section a couple of times, how they advertised in Cologne, how they gave tickets away for free to their employers ("ausverschenkt!"), how they ask for ridiculous low prices for their own 'fans' (muppets) but ask triple that for away fans etc, etc, etc

I always believed Leverkusen was the worst case scenario I could think of - RB proved me wrong here

Interesting about Uerdingen. I always wondered the reason for Bayer pulling out. I presume you're a Köln fan then?

 

[Ruhr]

Bayer sport clubs had been originally sport clubs for their workers, surely not created to sell a product in 1904. They were top in many sports, not only football, but also volleyball, basketball (several championships) at any place, where Bayer had factories.
Before the big money came in, Bayer often signed players promising them a career in the company after football. That was why there had been a lot of jokes about the office workers attitude of their players.
Then big money was spent in the 90s in german football and the Bayer company recognized, that they can´t sponsor all these Bayer clubs, so they closed down all of them including Bayer Uerdingen and focused on Bayer Leverkusen. Surely they also had used the company power in latin america to get talents and the way they got their hands on some east german players after the wall came down was ...well ..not illegal but close to it.

RB Leipzig is by the way not a sport club. With their 12 members that is only a kind of a false front. I bet their lawyers worked a lot to find that clever way of pretending a club where there is none.

 

[cptaidan88]

Moving away from the RB argument.... any Munich based posters able to provide any further info or an update on this?

http://stadiumdb.com/news/2014/07/m...e_allianz_arena_transport_authority_skeptical

I've got a soft spot for Die Löwen, and I'd love to see them back in the Bundesliga. Last December I saw the City EDS play at the Grünwalder and I thought 1860 would fare better moving back 'home'. I know its not quite that straight forward, but I think it would be better for both Munich clubs if 1860 moved on.