Bundesliga review

[Bembeltown]

I think Viagogo are fantastic, I sell my season ticket for 7 euros, they sell a ticket to a fan for 15 euros, no fucking problem. Everyone's a winner.

Blade....

Viagogo is basically a legalized version of a blackmarket. There are tons of people doing "business" there by ripping off fans all over Europe.

There are fanclubs out there who get a certain contingent of tickets from the club. Now these clubs add fake members to their member list to get even more tickets assigned and then proceed to sell those over Viagogo.

If a guy is selling overpriced tickets in front of the arena on matchday they can be legally punished by the club. However if Viagogo is the official partner of the club the clubs don´t have the possibility to fight this behavior.

 

[bayern blade]

Blade... apart from what Bayern-flo2 states.
Check out this link if it works

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.channel4.com/info/press/news/channel-4-dispatches-defeats-injunction-attempt-by-viagogo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.channel4.com/info/press/news ... by-viagogo</a>

I have "had" to buy a ticket from ViaNOgo in desperation to watch City. Their mark up on the ticket price was not justifiable to any genuine supporter.
There will always be tourists to watch any top flight club and if you are happy with it then fair enough.

We have a chant at City "We are not... we're really here" even a banner at the Etihad. In days of watching City through thin and thinner, tickets would be found using any way and means.... with blues in every part of a ground. ViagNOgo appears to organised ticket touting with a conscience for the clubs.

Surely even in Hildesheim you could find a local Bayern FanClub where you could sort something out without resorting to VGG but if you are happy with what you do (and I know some City fans are)... like you say... no fcukin' problem.

For Schalke home games they (Viagogo) are allowed (afaik) to charge twice the price. Imo that's not ok.

And the fact that viagogo has no limit when it comes to tickets for away games (Champions League final...) is absolutely not acceptable and therefore I'm happy that the members of Bayern forced the club to end the partnership after this season (2013/14) and establish their own system.

Glad you have your own system after this season FCB-flo2.

As I said I am only going on my personal experience, not defending Viagogo as a whole, at Bayern the prices they charge seem reasonable.

The only way around it would be to lend someone my season ticket which is a bit risky.

 

[Ruhr]

i was thinking about doing a piece on the history and the 50th anniversary of the Bundesliga this august. It may well explain the differences between german and english football, when it comes to ownership, fan culture etc.

It seems very strange, that germany was the last of the big european football nations to introduce a nationwide and professional football league in 1963.

Well, to explain it, on one hand germany is still a federal country with strong regional identities (and regional FAs ). It was the same when football started in the late 19th century, so it wasn´t unusual, that the championship was played in regional leagues and a knock out stage of the regional champions for the german title. A system that was adapted after the war. There was also a long tradition of a negative attitude against professionalism in sports in general and in football in germany, that has its roots way back in the times of the Kaiser in pre-WWI-times.

It needed the decline of german football on an international level (1962 world cup and the new european club competitions, the beginning exodus of players to italy) to change the mind of the FA. In 1963 the Bundesliga started with 16 clubs.

While i was looking for good stuff from that time on the internet i then found this brilliant video in english (or better a set of videos, as the 1970s will follow). It shows the start of it all, the first goal (or not, because it was not caught on camera), the first icons like Hamburg´s legendary striker Uwe („Our Uwe“) Seeler, the clown in the goal of 1860, Peter „Radi“ Radenkovic, and the wild first years, when every team could win the title (and been relegated the next season like 1. FC Nürnberg), before the legendary rivalry of FC Bayern and Borussia Mönchengladbach sets in. There are also some memories of the 1966 world cup in it and the question, whether the Beatles are the end of western culture or not (lol).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_nUHr6z9L0[/youtube]

Well, one epsiode´s missing, the great „who let the dogs out?“-derby Dortmund vs Schalke 1969, when BVB security let the dogs out to get fans under control, but they went for the Schalke players and one of them lost a little part of his a... -)
It´s in german, but the pictures tell it all (and what was „safe standing“ like in the good old times ☺) Schalke answered the next match with lions on the leash instead of dogs.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hHoL3SBznA[/youtube]

1970´s following soon

 

[Ray78]

Thanks for the videos Ruhr very interesting documentary.

 

[Ruhr]

and here is the 1970s.
A time of radical changes in germany, when the rebellious youth challenged the still authoritarian war generation in all parts of society. Well, not all was helpful in that decade, just thinking about the brutal architecture of the time. But society changed and so did football with young players starting to protest against the old-style management.

It was also the time of the notorious match fixing scandal. Players and clubs were to blame. But also the german FA. League 2 was still semi-professional and played in regional divisions. There was a huge gap to the booming Bundesliga. Relegation could end in financial disaster, so small clubs started to pay for wins and some clever players started to ask other clubs, if they pay more.

Legendary pictures in that video, when the president of Kickers Offenbach on his birthday party presented the match fixing negotiations he had on tape and the bosses of the FA were absolutely stunned.

The national team saved the Bundesliga with the world cup 1974, so did Bayern´s european success. Overall it was the great rivalry between Bayern and Mönchengladbach that divided the nation for over 10 years.

And some awful singing from Kevin Keegan :-)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqAQo72eS-o[/youtube]

 

[manchester blue]

Dortmund's new kit presented in flowers. Class!

Sorry if posted, did all the usual searches so no pictures of ships please...

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

Dortmund seem to be buying very well, lookign forward to seeing them next season. Cant pronouce their new guys name though :)

 

[Ruhr]

Blade... apart from what Bayern-flo2 states.
Check out this link if it works

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.channel4.com/info/press/news/channel-4-dispatches-defeats-injunction-attempt-by-viagogo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.channel4.com/info/press/news ... by-viagogo</a>

I have "had" to buy a ticket from ViaNOgo in desperation to watch City. Their mark up on the ticket price was not justifiable to any genuine supporter.
There will always be tourists to watch any top flight club and if you are happy with it then fair enough.

We have a chant at City "We are not... we're really here" even a banner at the Etihad. In days of watching City through thin and thinner, tickets would be found using any way and means.... with blues in every part of a ground. ViagNOgo appears to organised ticket touting with a conscience for the clubs.

Surely even in Hildesheim you could find a local Bayern FanClub where you could sort something out without resorting to VGG but if you are happy with what you do (and I know some City fans are)... like you say... no fcukin' problem.

For Schalke home games they (Viagogo) are allowed (afaik) to charge twice the price. Imo that's not ok.

And the fact that viagogo has no limit when it comes to tickets for away games (Champions League final...) is absolutely not acceptable and therefore I'm happy that the members of Bayern forced the club to end the partnership after this season (2013/14) and establish their own system.

Glad you have your own system after this season FCB-flo2.

As I said I am only going on my personal experience, not defending Viagogo as a whole, at Bayern the prices they charge seem reasonable.

The only way around it would be to lend someone my season ticket which is a bit risky.

Schalke cancelled the contract after 9 days because of ongoing contract violations by viagogo. lol

 

[JOGAMIGMOG]

Hi Ruhr. I'm interested to understand a bit more about the decline of 1860 Munich. They went from being Munich's top club to being skint and in Bundesliga 2 having to suffer the indignity of selling their 50% stake in the Allianz Arena back to Bayern. The shame!

Can't understand why to be honest. Big supporter fan base for 1860, big potential to succeed yet piss-poor results on the pitch and even worse in the boardroom. What's it all about?

Cheers mate.

 

[Ruhr]

They have a long history of bad management. Some of the worst management in the Bundesliga i would say.
They were relegated in the 1970s, still they were highly popular in Munich. But years in Bundesliga 2, while Bayern was a top club in Europe, made it difficult. In the 1980s they were banned from the Bundesliga for financial reasons.

To my mind 1860 should have gone the St. Pauli way and build up an own identity as an alternative to the local giant. But they didn´t even had their own stadium. Playing at the Olympic stadium, which was in some way seen as the FC Bayern stadium by the public, caused a lot of trouble among their fans. (imagine St Pauli or Union Berlin weren´t able to play in their own grounds). The worst decision was at some point to become a partner (or a little brother of Bayern) with the Allianz Arena. They should have known, that they will never be able to pay the debts of the Arena and they lost the last remaining pieces of their indentity by that.