Cameron suggests cutting housing benefit

[mcmanus]

Further reading from a Daily Mirror blog

The replies are interesting reading

<a class="postlink" href="http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigations/2012/04/atos---how-much-grief-can-one.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigation ... n-one.html</a>

I expected the replies would be 'fuck the ill, they're all scrounging twats'. Fair play Mirror readers some of you do have compassion.

The one reply that stood out though was;

Atos Victims Group said:

And now Atos intend silencing all those people they employ speaking out?

They're now making employee's sign the OSA "Official Secrets Act"


<a class="postlink" href="http://victimsofatoscorruption.wordpress.com/2012/04/12/5612/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://victimsofatoscorruption.wordpres ... 4/12/5612/</a>
April 13, 2012 1:32 PM

If you haven't been being naughty/corrupt why would such a company need this? Have they something to hide?

 

[metalblue]

Mac you are obviously in a more advantageous position than many on this one so will be interested in hearing your thoughts on mine.

Whilst I have no doubt there are a number of bogus recipients how endemic is it?  I had a look at some stats showing at introduction 1.1m claimed DLA and now it's a touch over 3m - a huge increase we will all agree...but is it? You are not eligible to file a new claim for DLA after 65 but if you claimed before you keep (therefore by now the "benefit" is catching a much wider group than initially); add to that the uptake in the early years as people became aware of the benefit plus those "released" from long-term "hospital" stays and we see the year-on-year increase at around 4% doesn't strike me of a system that is being systematically abused.  It's also worth mentioning that DLA isn't an "out of work" benefit, it's for those that work as well, so comparing outward symptoms may not necessarily be a good indicator in this case.

Now DLA itself is designed to help with the extra cost of living for those that have a disability therefore I would have thought a reasonable "test" to eligibility would be a combination of a doctor/consultants diagnosis coupled with a demonstration from the recipient that they have "used" extra support (be that external or family support).  The next issue I find discomfort with is the continuation of benefit if you claimed prior to 65 or not, now as a country we either provide the necessay access to the right type of support for the older (>65) population with disabilities or we don't...if we do then the benefit should stop at 65 if we don't then we either need to stop it or remove the upper age limit for new claims...there can be no evidence to support the current appearance of "inbalance".

@Harry, PD, malg and Rascal - Thanks for responses...I am shocked at involvement of a private company like ATOS in all this - I have no ideological reason for disliking private companies doing government work - but the methods and potential for conflict of interest look, at the least, suspect.  This needs a thorough independent review.

Good post.

Agreed and thanks. 

And today after i said little is reported in the papers this appears

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/atos-fatcat-lands-1m-bonus-941601" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/at ... nus-941601</a>

Unfucking believable

Cheers lads and for link

@Harry, PD, malg and Rascal - Thanks for responses...I am shocked at involvement of a private company like ATOS in all this - I have no ideological reason for disliking private companies doing government work - but the methods and potential for conflict of interest look, at the least, suspect.  This needs a thorough independent review.

There's an independent review here mate <a class="postlink" href="http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/wca-review-2011.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/wca-review-2011.pdf</a>

Cheers mate, I've had a read and it (surprisingly) doesn't really cover what I think needs reviewing, namely are ATOS incentivised to deny a claim.  We are seeing re-assessed claimants  being declared fit for work at nearly 40% (that is after appeal so ATOS numbers must be higher).

I'm thinking on making a request under the freedom of information act to see if I can't get a bit more detail.  Just need to word it correctly so (hopefully) they can't refuse it under sensitive commercial information.

 

[Dirty Harry]

Ah I see mate, well, dip me in shit and roll me in breadcrumbs but ATOS claim on their website they do NOT receive extra money or any incentives for denying claims, lol.

 

[blueinsa]

Ah I see mate, well, dip me in shit and roll me in breadcrumbs but ATOS claim on their website they do NOT receive extra money or any incentives for denying claims, lol.

This is from their careers page which is advertising disability assessment jobs and clearly says that they reward performance related work and offer bonus plans..

"We offer career opportunities throughout the UK, with competitive salaries and benefits, including performance-related pay, bonus plans and flexible working hours".

I'm going for they DO get bonus payouts for denying claims.

 

[talkativesprout]

The claimant has an arse, I declare he could work in Ikea testing springy seats. JSA approved for John "Caterpillar Man" Smith.

 

[mackenzie]

Completely incapable is the moot point of course. I would say personally very few are completely incapable and that includes me.

However take into account the nature of peoples illnesses/disabilitis and the sheer impractibilty of work becomes apparent. I will give me as an example.

You have seen me over the years, have a beer, have a laugh, walk pretty ok, be clear of mind and appear quite able. But and the big but is that is only when you see me. You dont see me other days when say this sunday i had to go to bed at 2pm in the afternoon because i was that tired, in so much pain it was the only way i could get any comfort.

Now as an employer, would they really want a person who is so unreliable he does not even know himself how he will feel the next day, does that employer want me who has spent 50 days this year already in hospital and visits hospital weekly for treatment.

Now im a bright lad, i have a degree, im fairly worldywise etc and have worked when able, i would work if i could, but as far as i am aware the job that pays you to turn up when you can and do what hours you can simply does not exist.

Again this i feel is the nature of many problems. There is a complete and total misunderstanding of how illness/disabilty affects a persons life.

Yes Rasc, I have seen you on your 'better' days over the years and fully understand how debilitating your illness must be. I have nothing but admiration for the way you struggle on, through the pain, for a life worth living.

The crux of the matter is that there are many that do not have the degree of illness/disability that you have. Not by a long way.

These are the ones that they are out to get and, like any political party, they pander to the voters and everyone gets caught up in the net.

Mac you are obviously in a more advantageous position than many on this one so will be interested in hearing your thoughts on mine.

Whilst I have no doubt there are a number of bogus recipients how endemic is it? I had a look at some stats showing at introduction 1.1m claimed DLA and now it's a touch over 3m - a huge increase we will all agree...but is it? You are not eligible to file a new claim for DLA after 65 but if you claimed before you keep (therefore by now the "benefit" is catching a much wider group than initially); add to that the uptake in the early years as people became aware of the benefit plus those "released" from long-term "hospital" stays and we see the year-on-year increase at around 4% doesn't strike me of a system that is being systematically abused. It's also worth mentioning that DLA isn't an "out of work" benefit, it's for those that work as well, so comparing outward symptoms may not necessarily be a good indicator in this case.

Now DLA itself is designed to help with the extra cost of living for those that have a disability therefore I would have thought a reasonable "test" to eligibility would be a combination of a doctor/consultants diagnosis coupled with a demonstration from the recipient that they have "used" extra support (be that external or family support). The next issue I find discomfort with is the continuation of benefit if you claimed prior to 65 or not, now as a country we either provide the necessay access to the right type of support for the older (>65) population with disabilities or we don't...if we do then the benefit should stop at 65 if we don't then we either need to stop it or remove the upper age limit for new claims...there can be no evidence to support the current appearance of "inbalance".

@Harry, PD, malg and Rascal - Thanks for responses...I am shocked at involvement of a private company like ATOS in all this - I have no ideological reason for disliking private companies doing government work - but the methods and potential for conflict of interest look, at the least, suspect. This needs a thorough independent review.

MB, I don't deal with DLA,I deal with JSA.

All I know, from experience on the front line, is that there are many who have come off ESA who had been left there for years with no reason.

My own Father was allowed to stay on it for years and got accustomed to the handouts whilst he had children. Not good that.

I have nothing but empathy for those that can't work but I can't abide those who take the piss.

 

[ElanJo]

What 'surge in sales'? I lost 2 days trading at a cost of about £800. One day was a bank holiday where i was forced to shut along with 30 other traders.
I have no doubt that someone somewhere made plenty of cash via flag sales and other various royal tat (imported from China) but every trader i know, including pub landlords, failed to make a 'killing' from the event.

This surge from a previous post of mine:

Now, the Jubilee cost £32M, not a tiny amount, but then you look at how the retailers (and thus the taxman, not to mention the markets) in the run up to the Jubilee and again see how it's a significant boost to the economy, with some producing record weeks:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.retail-week.com/home/food/wa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.retail-week.com/home/food/wa</a> ... entID=5279

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.birminghampost.net/birmingha" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.birminghampost.net/birmingha</a> ... -31064098/

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.harpers.co.uk/news/news-head" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.harpers.co.uk/news/news-head</a> ... sales.html

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.harpers.co.uk/news/news-head" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.harpers.co.uk/news/news-head</a> ... bilee.html

Anything that gets Brits out spending, driving sales and not letting their savings rot away to the good of no one in their deposit accounts is a very good thing.

If you want me to get more of the same then let me know.

-- Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:50 pm --

I'm an unusual case.

Stop right there

What was your best subject at school EJ?

I reckon you're a prop forward for sale at the moment.

PE, Art and Science (Physics and Biology ...I was terrible at Chemistry, it bored me to tears).

RE was my favourite tho. The only class in which I was clearly smarter than the teacher (and quite considerably so).

 

[stonerblue]

not sure what your smashed glass pic signifies but read my reply to that post

 

[ElanJo]

not sure what your smashed glass pic signifies but read my reply to that post

<a class="postlink" href="http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html</a>

 

[stonerblue]

not sure what your smashed glass pic signifies but read my reply to that post

<a class="postlink" href="http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html</a>

A nice git of light reading on a Sunday morning. Cheers.