Cameron vetoes EU Treaty change

[SWP's back]

Means nothing

Put 10 different economists in a room and you'll get 11 different opinions.

I'd imagine the figure would be even higher.

Find me two that predicted the financial meltdown.

You won't find many because they all believed the hype.

I'm sure I could however I don't have to.

Law74 predicted a stoke/sunderland double on Sunday. That does not mean that he will get his next double right.

Also being able to predict something does not mean that any solution that party comes up with will work or is the correct one.

 

[twinkletoes]

I'd imagine the figure would be even higher.

Find me two that predicted the financial meltdown.

You won't find many because they all believed the hype.

I'm sure I could however I don't have to.

Law74 predicted a stoke/sunderland double on Sunday. That does not mean that he will get his next double right.

Also being able to predict something does not mean that any solution that party comes up with will work or is the correct one.

You're favourite way of responding.

Rather than answer the question try and discredit it.

 

[Balti]

The funny thing about this whole 'debate' is that NOBODY would have agreed to this treaty change, Labour, Lib Dem, Conservative, nobody! Had Cameron signed upto it he'd currently be in the middle of one hell of a shitstorm, he doesnt sign upto it and guess what its pretty much the same thing!

Thats the problem with politics in this country and especially Labour at the moment under Mr Ed, they are just more bothered about disagreeing with EVERYTHING that the coalition do rather than actually setting out policies and sticking to their own guns, i'm embarrassed for them and the quicker they get rid of that joker the better they'll do.

Cameron has shown leadership, decisiveness and has put Clegg in his place at last, im very happy with how things have turned out.

Good post. There was no other viable option. But whinging Ed just bleats on regardless. You did it. No you did it. No you did it etc ad infinitum. Yawn.

I wish for a revolution in English politics that would sweep these tired old parties away.

 

[SWP's back]

Find me two that predicted the financial meltdown.

You won't find many because they all believed the hype.

I'm sure I could however I don't have to.

Law74 predicted a stoke/sunderland double on Sunday. That does not mean that he will get his next double right.

Also being able to predict something does not mean that any solution that party comes up with will work or is the correct one.

You're favourite way of responding.

Rather than answer the question try and discredit it.

When the question has zero relevance then it is fair to discredit it, yes.

I find your ironic reply given your penchant for ad hominem in this thread by the way.

 

[PJMCC1UK]

Wasn't it Keynes who said spend to boost the economy when in a slump. But he also said to save when things are going good to pay for it. Unfortunately the last government didn't heed that advice so we can't spend our way out of it.
If you take Stiglitz's advice then we just end up with more debt and even when times are good we'll have to borrow instead of living off our own means.

Do nothing and have 10 years of stagnation.

The proof being?
I know things aren't moving but how can you be so sure that they won't for ten years? And surely this treaty adds to the chance of stagnation because it stops people spending their way out of the recession.

 

[twinkletoes]

Wasn't it Keynes who said spend to boost the economy when in a slump. But he also said to save when things are going good to pay for it. Unfortunately the last government didn't heed that advice so we can't spend our way out of it.
If you take Stiglitz's advice then we just end up with more debt and even when times are good we'll have to borrow instead of living off our own means.

Do nothing and have 10 years of stagnation.

The proof being?
I know things aren't moving but how can you be so sure that they won't for ten years? And surely this treaty adds to the chance of stagnation because it stops people spending their way out of the recession.

Do you mean consumer spending? More debt!

 

[PJMCC1UK]

Do nothing and have 10 years of stagnation.

The proof being?
I know things aren't moving but how can you be so sure that they won't for ten years? And surely this treaty adds to the chance of stagnation because it stops people spending their way out of the recession.

Do you mean consumer spending? More debt!

No I mean the treaty stops the Eurozone governments spending. That in turn will stop the consumer anyway. But the treaty is designed to stop over spending.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Joseph Stiglitz, professor of economics at Columbia University and a Nobel laureate doesnt agree with you.

He says you should spend to get out of a slump.

He also predicted the global financial meltdown.

If we kept pulling names out of a hat, one at a time, to back up our stance, then this thread could top 100 posts.

If he takes the time to read what Stiglitz has to say then he will see an adequate and worthwhile alternative to austerity.

We have some of the lowest borrowing rates in the world so why not take advantage of it and spend on major infrastructure projects which will make us a more productive economy and aid growth.

Superfast broadband.

European energy supergrid.

Integrated transport system.

National water grid.

It was this type of misguided, if well intentioned, thinking that mortgaged our futures for the next twenty to thirty years in the interests of uncosted and unaffordable spending on our infrastructure.

Einstein said that the definition of insanity was to keep doing the same thing over and over again and to expect a different outcome. I couldn't have put it better myself.

 

[Bojinov The Bull]

The funny thing about this whole 'debate' is that NOBODY would have agreed to this treaty change, Labour, Lib Dem, Conservative, nobody! Had Cameron signed upto it he'd currently be in the middle of one hell of a shitstorm, he doesnt sign upto it and guess what its pretty much the same thing!

Thats the problem with politics in this country and especially Labour at the moment under Mr Ed, they are just more bothered about disagreeing with EVERYTHING that the coalition do rather than actually setting out policies and sticking to their own guns, i'm embarrassed for them and the quicker they get rid of that joker the better they'll do.

Cameron has shown leadership, decisiveness and has put Clegg in his place at last, im very happy with how things have turned out.

Good post. There was no other viable option. But whinging Ed just bleats on regardless. You did it. No you did it. No you did it etc ad infinitum. Yawn.

I wish for a revolution in English politics that would sweep these tired old parties away.

Definitely, couldnt agree more. Its too stale, its too old fashioned, its not really democracy anymore. You now have parties who can be voted in with a manifesto that they have no intention of sticking to and can just do whatever you want. You have parties just full of MP's getting their 80K a year in 'safe' Labour or Conservative seats without ever really having to do anything. New parties have no chance of ever competing with them because they simply cant raise the funds needed, its all about how much money you have. Conservatives get it from 'donations' and Labour get it via the unions.

 

[Balti]

The funny thing about this whole 'debate' is that NOBODY would have agreed to this treaty change, Labour, Lib Dem, Conservative, nobody! Had Cameron signed upto it he'd currently be in the middle of one hell of a shitstorm, he doesnt sign upto it and guess what its pretty much the same thing!

Thats the problem with politics in this country and especially Labour at the moment under Mr Ed, they are just more bothered about disagreeing with EVERYTHING that the coalition do rather than actually setting out policies and sticking to their own guns, i'm embarrassed for them and the quicker they get rid of that joker the better they'll do.

Cameron has shown leadership, decisiveness and has put Clegg in his place at last, im very happy with how things have turned out.

Good post. There was no other viable option. But whinging Ed just bleats on regardless. You did it. No you did it. No you did it etc ad infinitum. Yawn.

I wish for a revolution in English politics that would sweep these tired old parties away.

Definitely, couldnt agree more. Its too stale, its too old fashioned, its not really democracy anymore. You now have parties who can be voted in with a manifesto that they have no intention of sticking to and can just do whatever you want. You have parties just full of MP's getting their 80K a year in 'safe' Labour or Conservative seats without ever really having to do anything. New parties have no chance of ever competing with them because they simply cant raise the funds needed, its all about how much money you have. Conservatives get it from 'donations' and Labour get it via the unions.

And still they manage to con enough people to vote for them on the basis that they're not 'the other lot' [yahboohiss]. When in fact they're virtually the same for the most part.

Too many MP's. Too many Ministers. Too many aides. Too many tiers of government. Too many civil servants. Too many toffs in the House of Lords. Too many Euro MP's. Too many tax sucking useless talking shops and final salary schemes.

It's no wonder the private sector is grinding to a halt with all these leeches bleeding it dry and not doing very much in return.

Time to derail the gravy train.