In my opinion, calling something 'cancel culture' is actually the attempted cancellation of debate. My friend works at a senior level in the National Trust and is coming under severe pressure, and often abuse, for beginning the process of recognition of the links between the great houses of England and colonialism and slavery. The number of their members (and the demographic is over 60 and white, predominantly) who are writing letters of complaint, withdrawing membership, and abusing staff, simply because of the desire to modify plaques and information to recognise the background of 18th century entrepreneurs, benefactors and philanthropists, and the often distasteful truth of their wealth, is, to me, bizarre. The truth is the truth and refusing to acknowledge and discuss it is actually the true cancellation of culture.
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Cancel Culture - does it exist?
- Thread starter bluethrunthru
- Start date
I have an opinion on the existing laws.Taking law into your own hands...
Slipper One
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 7 Jan 2022
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- 916
"Or the attempt to “cancel” Bob Dylan because he tried to chat up some 16 year old back in the early 60s when he was barely older than that himself. AND IT WAS THE FUCKING 60s."Was it a good thing that Harvey Weinstein was called out and the women he raped given justice? OBVIOUSLY yes.
Was it a good thing that institutional racism in the police was called out? Again, obviously yes.
But like everything these things turn down ridiculous avenues and you have things like 400 year old pubs with names like ‘the ye olde black boy’ having to change the name because random virtue signalling wankers on social media are offended, despite the pub actually being named after miners or dock workers covered in soot or whatever.
Or the attempt to “cancel” Bob Dylan because he tried to chat up some 16 year old back in the early 60s when he was barely older than that himself. AND IT WAS THE FUCKING 60s.
And slavery was 200 years ago. Wrong by todays standards, but widely accepted back then.......and assisted by many black people.
Instead of putting all of their efforts into pulling down statues and renaming pubs/streets, which cannot change what happened, why don't they focus on changing the slave trade of today and help those actually caught up in it?
Not quite so fashionable I suppose.
Both can be done. And I suspect that it was not widely accepted by victims of it."Or the attempt to “cancel” Bob Dylan because he tried to chat up some 16 year old back in the early 60s when he was barely older than that himself. AND IT WAS THE FUCKING 60s."
And slavery was 200 years ago. Wrong by todays standards, but widely accepted back then.......and assisted by many black people.
Instead of putting all of their efforts into pulling down statues and renaming pubs/streets, which cannot change what happened, why don't they focus on changing the slave trade of today and help those actually caught up in it?
Not quite so fashionable I suppose.
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Or the attempt to “cancel” Bob Dylan because he tried to chat up some 16 year old back in the early 60s when he was barely older than that himself. AND IT WAS THE FUCKING 60s."
This is a very strange way to describe Bob Dylan being accused of sexually assaulting a 12 year old over 6 weeks when he was 24.
The perfect fumble
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- 3 Jun 2012
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- 24,095
Liz Truss has an invite withdrawn because of Windrush and she claimed she had been cancelled. Yes she had, she had her invite withdrawn because of events.
As for statues, and as you mention the USA, take the statue of Nathan Bedford Forrest, a slave owning Confederate General in the American Civil War, who became the first Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, does he deserve a statue, does his role in history change because his statue is removed? Of course not because history does not live in statues, it lives in stories and in books. There are no statues of Hitler in Germany, has that changed opinion of him? There is a statue of Lenin in Kharkiv has that changed opinion of him?
Maine Road, our former home was once called Temperance Street, Does that change the history of the place.
Social mores change over time, if you watched an episode of Love Thy Neighbour today, the language used at that time was socially acceptable, now it is not, in the same way we no longer speak Shakesperian English
The big question is though who do you want to decide on these matters?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Rascal, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Liz Truss has an invite withdrawn because of Windrush and she claimed she had been cancelled. Yes she had, she had her invite withdrawn because of events.
As for statues, and as you mention the USA, take the statue of Nathan Bedford Forrest, a slave owning Confederate General in the American Civil War, who became the first Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, does he deserve a statue, does his role in history change because his statue is removed? Of course not because history does not live in statues, it lives in stories and in books. There are no statues of Hitler in Germany, has that changed opinion of him? There is a statue of Lenin in Kharkiv has that changed opinion of him?
Maine Road, our former home was once called Temperance Street, Does that change the history of the place.
Social mores change over time, if you watched an episode of Love Thy Neighbour today, the language used at that time was socially acceptable, now it is not, in the same way we no longer speak Shakesperian English
The big question is though who do you want to decide on these matters?
It is far more simplistic for me. It is accepting, or not, the concept that we as a society give ourselves the right to turn on and remove historic heritage, based on redifinitions at a given point in time. I find the concept a bit talibanny if I'm honest.
It has obviously happened right throughout history, shifts in power have always had an element of removing what came before and asserting their own. The thing with cancel culture is it seems to be self spawned, by sections of society rather than any real change at higher levels. A lot of it also targets far more distant examples. Extent comes into it too, there is a scale there that is more rapid and reaching than other such previous acts.
It is the higher levels that have created the term to enhance division and solidify voting positions, hence the constant use of terms like radicals, lefties, snowflakes and wokies. In the past, it was political correctness.It is far more simplistic for me. It is accepting, or not, the concept that we as a society give ourselves the right to turn on and remove historic heritage, based on redifinitions at a given point in time. I find the concept a bit talibanny if I'm honest.
It has obviously happened right throughout history, shifts in power have always had an element of removing what came before and asserting their own. The thing with cancel culture is it seems to be self spawned, by sections of society rather than any real change at higher levels. A lot of it also targets far more distant examples. Extent comes into it too, there is a scale there that is more rapid and reaching than other such previous acts.
Rascal
El Presidente
Of which I am quite aware Fumbs, the question though remains, who do you want to decide on these matters?There are more things in heaven and earth, Rascal, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
kaz7
Well-Known Member
How that morgan **** isnt cancelled is a mystery to me