Catastrophic transfers are killing us.

[eyalluvitt]

I think he is saying that we should have kept Palmer as having both Palmer and Bobb in the team would have been the best option of all. Given Palmer's current form, I am sure most would agree, but he has gone.

Pep would never trust him like Chelsea have, he would be another McAtee, like being an apprentice brickie at a building company, your always ‘the kid’ till you move

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

We certainly can’t afford to make the same mistakes in the next 2/3 windows. The signings need to be spot on. There are good players out there who can be signed at reasonable prices. We need to find them!

 

[Tico Warrior]

There does seem to have been a change in our transfer strategy the past few windows, and I don't understand why. We built so much success upon signing players from teams just below us in the league (like Walker, Nasri, Barry, Sterling), from top teams that were unhappy for some reason (Yaya, Ballotelli, Tevez), from teams abroad that were just below the top and were ready to step up (Aguero, Silva x 2, Haaland, Dias) or talented young players in weaker leagues (Jesus, Alvarez). Now we seem to be increasingly signing or targeting players who are in the PL at much worse teams (Phillips, Nunes) or who we could have gone for before they moved here and would have been cheaper (Bruno G, Paquetta).

Also I think we did a really good jobs in moving on some top players and club legends before they fully declined. The way the departures of Kompany, Zabba, Fernandinho, Silva, Yaya, Aguero etc were handled was really good for the most part IMO. The way we have held on to players who are clearly on the decline or want(ed) out like Walker, Bernardo, KDB is in really stark contrast to what we used to do.

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

We certainly can’t afford to make the same mistakes in the next 2/3 windows. The signings need to be spot on. There are good players out there who can be signed at reasonable prices. We need to find them!

See AFC Bournemouth as a prime example of excellent scouting along with Brighton

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

See AFC Bournemouth as a prime example of excellent scouting along with Brighton

Yep. And much as I hate to say it, Liverpool.

 

[jamielowndes]

Post #2056......6th Feb 2022 by me. (Im' crap on tech, and can't paste it)....discussing our EDS in 'transfer forum.

"the only one who looks like he could make it, is Palmer, as was Foden"

.....so no, not everyone is 'full of shit' some were of the opinion that he 'could' become as good as he is proving ;)

Your exact quote implies that you thought he had a *chance* of breaking out. You weren't exactly locked on to him being a star. What I said was people didn't think he was going to break out as the best player in a top 6 team in his last year at City, as that's what he did for Chelsea.

If someone had told you to bet the house on him being 2nd in Prem scoring in 23/24 with 22 goals in 34 games back on 6th Feb 2022, would you have done it?

It's not a case of thinking he will be either great or shit, plenty of people thought he had potential. But I don't believe that anyone would have sworn down on how good he actually was last season while he was playing for City.

 

[Gone for a Burton]

Your exact quote implies that you thought he had a *chance* of breaking out. You weren't exactly locked on to him being a star. What I said was people didn't think he was going to break out as the best player in a top 6 team in his last year at City, as that's what he did for Chelsea.

If someone had told you to bet the house on him being 2nd in Prem scoring in 23/24 with 22 goals in 34 games back on 6th Feb 2022, would you have done it?

It's not a case of thinking he will be either great or shit, plenty of people thought he had potential. But I don't believe that anyone would have sworn down on how good he actually was last season while he was playing for City.

100%.

Pep's decision making has worked in the past but perpetual perfection does'nt exist unlike hindsight, which is a speciality on here.

The good lads from the accademy, who've moved on in recent years, were unproven at the very highest level in world football.

The club couldnt just stockpile them for several seasons in anticipation of a perfect storm of injuries,loss of form or age.

The lads would stagnate and block the pipeline for other even younger CFA lads

Most of the leavers have gone on to have good careers mainly at sub elite clubs, whilst the next gen are now pushing to be in our first team squad.

There is no guarantee that any of them will make it at City & and i'll wager that most will eventually be sold to build good careers else where.

Some will be ready for 'mens' football immediately, others may be late developers who emerge more slowly.

Palmer. I would've kept him and was bemused by the "stay or go,but no loan" decision which appeared inconsistant with what had gone on afore.

I'm reasonably sure that no one,including himself, expected what has occured since.....we know the past but not the future !!

Fair play to him and the other lads,they've got the chance to play first team football and enjoy success elsewhere, but they all owe their start to the excellence of City & the CFA.

 

[JOGAMIGMOG]

People are doing a lot of rewriting of history at the moment.

Palmer - was nowhere near Foden's level last two seasons and best position is the same position. Played plenty of games for us. Foden was PL player of the season last year and without him we didn't win the league. We had two potentially world class number 10s and we made our choice. Good luck to Cole. Suck it up.

Lavia - has taken years of playing for Southampton to get to the point that he's a backup player for Chelsea.

Rogers - nobody can seriously say they'd have him ahead Foden, Palmer, Alvarez, Doku, Savinho. Again, has taken years to get to this position.

What did we do without these amazing young players? Oh, the treble and four in a row.

Anyone saying it should have been done differently also needs to explain how they'd also have achieved these unparalleled levels at the same time.

Fair points, well put.
It’s really only Palmer where we ballsed up but not for getting him out of the club when he wanted out. Instead for selling him for what’s turned out to be peanuts rather than for not loaning him for a season.

 

[Marvin.]

In commenting about the ability of players, remember that the team is systemic. It is much easier to play well in a functional team. Young players like Savinho, Doku and Rico would play better in a team that was performing well. The problem that City have is that we have an injury to 'the best player in the world', and that one of the best players in the world in Kevin de Bruyne is now at the end of his career. I am not sure that there is really much that you can do about that. You cannot sell KDB in his final season, you have to be grateful for what we won, and what we watched.

Selling off our academy players is depressing but we know why we do it. It's because of the way the laws of the game are written. We meet PSR rules by selling academy players. We over-do it, and Pep might have done better over the years in playing young players off the bench when we were hammering sides.

Why for example is Mcatee not getting gametime ahead of KDB who is quite clearly unable to play at the intensity required to play Premier League football. That will lead to the loss of a top quality young player in the Jan. or Summer window, and we will never know how good he is. See a host of similar stories.

I love Pep. I support City till I die but you can criticise Pep for his use of young players, and you can criticise City for monetising the academy.

 

[StillBluessinceHydeRoad]

People are doing a lot of rewriting of history at the moment.

Palmer - was nowhere near Foden's level last two seasons and best position is the same position. Played plenty of games for us. Foden was PL player of the season last year and without him we didn't win the league. We had two potentially world class number 10s and we made our choice. Good luck to Cole. Suck it up.

Lavia - has taken years of playing for Southampton to get to the point that he's a backup player for Chelsea.

Rogers - nobody can seriously say they'd have him ahead Foden, Palmer, Alvarez, Doku, Savinho. Again, has taken years to get to this position.

What did we do without these amazing young players? Oh, the treble and four in a row.

Anyone saying it should have been done differently also needs to explain how they'd also have achieved these unparalleled levels at the same time.

Excellent post and I agree with every word. We can't look back and say that we should have kept all the players who left apart from the ones who don't appear to have done so well! Nor has our recruitment been entirely disastrous! Haaland in 2022 and Rodri in 2019 have been unqualified successes but we had to wait for both and they met a proven need. Rodri took time to settle in, believe it or not! For a whole season people considered him not good enough to succeed Fernandino! Savinho has an irritating habit of coming inside into the traffic even in games where the space is outside, as on Saturday - but it's his first season... Doku doesn't look fully fit, and this reminds us that City are in an ongoing injury crisis. Eight members of the squad unfit n Saturday, the club having to bring in the walking wounded because the sick and lame simply cannot play and so we turn out a significantly different eleven every game.

I don't expect us to enjoy a run like this but I think we should show a little understanding of players and a club which have achieved so much and might just have a temporary drop in relish for the combat as well as bodie which feel the strain of years of unrivalled success. Our lads are still good enough when the appetite and fitness return.

 

[eyalluvitt]

Fair points, well put.
It’s really only Palmer where we ballsed up but not for getting him out of the club when he wanted out. Instead for selling him for what’s turned out to be peanuts rather than for not loaning him for a season.

Loan or sale with a buyback clause is our usual, why we didn’t with him is criminal

 

[southamptonblue]

Your exact quote implies that you thought he had a *chance* of breaking out. You weren't exactly locked on to him being a star. What I said was people didn't think he was going to break out as the best player in a top 6 team in his last year at City, as that's what he did for Chelsea.

If someone had told you to bet the house on him being 2nd in Prem scoring in 23/24 with 22 goals in 34 games back on 6th Feb 2022, would you have done it?

It's not a case of thinking he will be either great or shit, plenty of people thought he had potential. But I don't believe that anyone would have sworn down on how good he actually was last season while he was playing for City.

Nobody knows about any young player, including Foden.....however, some of us thought Palmer "could" become as good as he has shown, you thought he would never be a 'top' player....and you were 100% wrong, so suck it up, and stop trying to convince yourself that nobody thought he could make it.
For the record, I didn't and still don't think, any of the others I've seen have a chance (including those who have left)....let's hope I'm as wrong about them as you were about Palmer ;)
Bobb looked the next best, but he certainly hasn't shown anything yet to suggest he will be anywhere as good as Foden or Palmer.

 

[southamptonblue]

Most of the leavers have gone on to have good careers mainly at sub elite clubs, whilst the next gen are now pushing to be in our first team squad.


Palmer. I would've kept him and was bemused by the "stay or go,but no loan" decision which appeared inconsistant with what had gone on afore.

Your right, there are no guarantees with young players, however what you stated above "mainly at sub elite clubs" and "i would have kept him" .....shows, like me, that you thought Palmer could make it at the top level ;)

 

[StockportJB76]

It is farcical that we do not have a second option at centre forward and in defensive midfield for a club who have generated the most income in the Premier League over recent seasons. Seems very obvious that the charges have affected our recent transfer policy, which has been cautious and the players bought have not been at the higher end of the wage scale, apart from Haaland (bought 2 and a half years ago). Contrast to the Aguero, Toure, Silva days. The large scale sales from the Academy, which also relate to these issues, have limited our options also. Simpson-Pusey was finding his feet the Premier League 2 last season, where the team finished near the bottom and had a poor defensive record. He needed loan experience, before being exposed to first team pressures, in my opinion.

 

[Eaststander1]

For so long we got nearly everything right, smart acquisitions. Well-timed and lucrative departures.

But it's been a disaster recently, the last 3 seasons are bad. Not here to bash any players, and Savinho is "first season" and young, he needs time.

But we have to accept that Savinho, Nunes and Doku are very serious downgrades in terms of output to where we once were.

Doku and Savinho, are young and might have a chance, but cost about £85 between them. Their delivery in terms of goals, assists and big chances is way off.

Nunes, looks like a disaster.
Phillips, total disaster.
Gundogen, very definitely hasn't worked.

Hindsight is easy, but those 5 are all part of a real reduction in quality.

Gvardiol is quality, but having a hard time....so is not delivering.

When it comes to departures we've made quite a few missteps in letting home grown quality leave, think Palmer, Lavia, Porro, Rogers, Delap maybe even Harwood-Bellis, or go a bit further back to Frimpong. We made good money, but we spent even more replacing them with worse.

Can't always get it right, and hindsight is easy, we cashed in on loads of lads (whole bunch to Southampton) and Doyle, Hamilton etc who have not emerged. But Palmer looks like a huge error.

As regards sales, Pep's policy of "unhappy players out", is the right one, and served him well. But Bernardo wanted out for a while apparently and we clung onto him. Mahrez's time was up, his age, got a good fee, but he often delivered in a way the new guys haven't. Sterling, Jesus, and Zinchenko haven't prospered elsewhere, but they'd be very useful to us now. Laporte as well, and Sane. Cancelo also is a huge upgrade on what we now have. I get it that players are moved on for different reasons, Sane wanted out, Cancelo was a mardarse, Julian wanted more game time, but some of them are big losses.

The old guard also looks broken, KDB is shattered and out of contract, Bernardo well off it, Walker finished, Stones, Ake, Dias, Akanji, all good but fragile or constantly out injured.

Fells like the squad is in a pretty bad place. I still think back that 6 months ago we played Madrid off the park over 2 legs and got mugged on penalties, so maybe I'm overreacting, but it feels like we've wasted huge sums on inferior quality, and failed to manage the age profile.

Big job for the new Sporting Director.

Gvardiols main problem is his lack of concentration and focus, that's leading to mistakes ..... there's little excuse for the amount of times he gives the ball away, even at his young age ..... the plus side to him is the goals he contributes.

I'd much rather have left Savinho, Nunes, Phillips and Doku where they were ... and just given Cole Palmer more game time, maybe a full season.

 

[Macca77macca]

Jeez I thought the Etihad had blown up or something from the title of this thread CATASTROPHIC TRANSFERS ARE KILLING US

 

[Colin Bells Boots]

Loan or sale with a buyback clause is our usual, why we didn’t with him is criminal

Don't think Chelsea would have accepted one after paying £40m and add-ons.

We normally insist on them where we have accepted lower fees.

 

[southamptonblue]

It is farcical that we do not have a second option at centre forward and in defensive midfield for a club who have generated the most income in the Premier League over recent seasons. Seems very obvious that the charges have affected our recent transfer policy, which has been cautious and the players bought have not been at the higher end of the wage scale, apart from Haaland (bought 2 and a half years ago). Contrast to the Aguero, Toure, Silva days. The large scale sales from the Academy, which also relate to these issues, have limited our options also. Simpson-Pusey was finding his feet the Premier League 2 last season, where the team finished near the bottom and had a poor defensive record. He needed loan experience, before being exposed to first team pressures, in my opinion.

Despite being shite, Phillips WAS bought to cover DM, Kovacic was bought to cover there too.....so really we did/do?
We had Alverez to cover Haaland, and he played all over the place to get game time, and left! So who of that quality is going to want to sign (and stay)....for either position?
IMO.....it's nothing to do with the charges, just the financial rules making it harder to pay the wages an elite player wants...especially if he knows (and the club knows) that he won't be playing as much as elsewhere?

 

[Grassland Blue]

One things for sure, I didn’t realise how good Mahrez was until we brought in Doku and Savinho.

Makes me appreciate everything he did for us now!

And the keeper got nowhere near his pk's.....

 

[Longballutd]

It is farcical that we do not have a second option at centre forward and in defensive midfield for a club who have generated the most income in the Premier League over recent seasons. Seems very obvious that the charges have affected our recent transfer policy, which has been cautious and the players bought have not been at the higher end of the wage scale, apart from Haaland (bought 2 and a half years ago). Contrast to the Aguero, Toure, Silva days. The large scale sales from the Academy, which also relate to these issues, have limited our options also. Simpson-Pusey was finding his feet the Premier League 2 last season, where the team finished near the bottom and had a poor defensive record. He needed loan experience, before being exposed to first team pressures, in my opinion.

100% it’s criminal that the club have allowed this happen. Having just Erling is madness. At one point we had Tevez, Aguero, Balotelli and Dzeko in the squad.