Champions League 10th-11th March

[blue city199]

[bigimg]http://i.imgur.com/CCNawF2.gif[/bigimg]

 

[pudge]

No the low level of the Premiership has been obvious for some time. I have seen Palace teams almost as good as this struggle to make the play offs at the low level and at the top level English clubs have done very poorly in Europe. This is not a knee jerk reaction, but what has been obvious for some time. Most of the best players in the world also no longer play in England and it has been for some time.

I explained how PSG's location and glamour allowed them to get the biggest names in football. English clubs have never had the appeal or the money usually to get the biggest names in the game. So to bridge that gap we need to produce world class players of our own like the Bundesliga and La Liga teams do.

I have also posted that I don't think Chelsea are better man for man. It's close and things have changed since I watched a lot of PSG last season. David Luiz, Thiago Silva, Veratti, Motta, Cavani and Zlatan are all top class experienced payers with the exception of Veratti.

I don't agree with your assessment of PSG.

Take away Zlatan and I struggle to see any world class players with the possible exception of Cavani although I've never been wholly convinced. Fabregas, Hazard, Matic over the likes Matuidi, Motta and Pastore.

Thiago Silva is having a Kompany-esque season, well below par on the whole.

Courtois over Sirigu, Marquinhos isn't a right back by trade and Ivanovic is annoyingly one of the best RBs out there atm. Azpilicueta over Maxwell.

Costa and Cavani are 7/10 strikers imo.

I'd also say that man for man we're better than PSG. A lack of English players doesn't hurt the Premier League in these competitions as a lack of French players don't hinder PSG or a lack of Portuguese players don't hinder Porto.

Thiago Silva has been world class and can still be. There is a reason Motta has been the defensive midfielder for 2 different CL winning teams. Why exactly would you take Matic over him? David Luiz when he focuses in a big game is better than either Terry of Cahill. Maxwell not great, but again very experienced. I thought PSG would win and I rate Mourinho very highly.

Thiago Silva may not be having the best season, but at his best he is at least a level above any defender in England. I agree with Courtois, but would take Matuidi over Ramires.

PSG edge it in terms of quality of the team and they are more experienced too.

Though arguing over the better players does not address my initial point about PSG attracting the biggest names in the game. Pastore and Cavani were both had much bigger names than quality. You could throw in Lucas Moura there too. They bought the next big big defender in Marquinhos and the Van der Veil. A lot of times these players have failed to justify the hype, but it shows that PSG can attract players the rest in England cannot.

No, your initial point was that Premier League teams suffer in Europe due to a lack of world class English players.

Then when presented with the fact that it didn't hinder PSG, or Porto, with their respective national players you made them exempt.

 

[blue city199]

 

[supercrystal7]

No, your initial point was that Premier League teams suffer in Europe due to a lack of world class English players.

Then when presented with the fact that it didn't hinder PSG, or Porto, with their respective national players you made them exempt.

My fault I meant my post addressing why PSG are exempt.

However, arguing about how a couple of other teams get through it ie PSG by being based in Paris and Porto being at the mercy of agents( and not that successful apart from when they did have a number of Portugese under Mourinho does not change things).

If you can always attract the best players in the world then you don't need your country to produce them, but no English team can attract the best in the world. So to compensate we need to produce our own. We don't have the same situation as PSG or even Inter Milan had in the past.

 

[sam-caddick]

English football is on it's backside if all three of Chelsea, us and Arsenal go out at the the first knockout stage.

Tottenham and Liverpool have already done so and that was in the Europa League.

The league has wasted a lot of money in recent years, made a lot of average managerial appointments and it's record in promoting quality youth - albeit a rise has been seen in the past two/ three seasons - has been poor.

Even the French Ligue 1 is becoming as good as EPL, forget the Bundesliga and La Liga, they are way ahead and left us behind a long time ago.

 

[pudge]

No, your initial point was that Premier League teams suffer in Europe due to a lack of world class English players.

Then when presented with the fact that it didn't hinder PSG, or Porto, with their respective national players you made them exempt.

My fault I meant my post addressing why PSG are exempt.

However, arguing about how a couple of other teams get through it ie PSG by being based in Paris and Porto being at the mercy of agents( and not that successful apart from when they did have a number of Portugese under Mourinho does not change things).

If you can always attract the best players in the world then you don't need your country to produce them, but no English team can attract the best in the world. So to compensate we need to produce our own. We don't have the same situation as PSG or even Inter Milan had in the past.

SIlva, Aguero, Yaya, Hazard, Fabregas, Sanchez, Di Maria even Falcao (at the time) etc

Reasons for top quality players moving clubs nowadays are more financially motivated than it is by prestige. Doesn't matter where the league is with regard to standard, chuck enough money at someone and they'll pack their bags; as is the case in every league.

 

[supercrystal7]

My fault I meant my post addressing why PSG are exempt.

However, arguing about how a couple of other teams get through it ie PSG by being based in Paris and Porto being at the mercy of agents( and not that successful apart from when they did have a number of Portugese under Mourinho does not change things).

If you can always attract the best players in the world then you don't need your country to produce them, but no English team can attract the best in the world. So to compensate we need to produce our own. We don't have the same situation as PSG or even Inter Milan had in the past.

SIlva, Aguero, Yaya, Hazard, Fabregas, Sanchez, Di Maria even Falcao (at the time) etc

Reasons for top quality players moving clubs nowadays are more financially motivated than it is by prestige. Doesn't matter where the league is with regard to standard, chuck enough money at someone and they'll pack their bags; as is the case in every league.

Only Aguero out of them was a very big name and even then he was still not at the top level nor even the biggest young striker. Benzema was still the biggest out of the youngsters and there were still the likes of Villa/Zlatan/Etoo (who would make a shock move). Arguable that Higuain was a bigger name. Falcao has just come back from a career threatening injury and nobody else wanted to take the risk.

Di Maria is probably the biggest name out of the rest and it took a very unique circumstance for him to leave much like Ozil. Even then he wanted to go to PSG and will probably end up there at some point.

Silva, Yaya, Fabregas, Sanchez are not top tier names. Neymar, Suarez, Bale, Ronaldo, Pogba, Zlatan, Etoo, Benzema, Thiago Silva, Cavani, Pastore and Kroos are just some of the players that were much bigger names. Of course the bigger name does not mean the better player, but a lot of the time it does. Our last two players of the season (whether deserved or not) have just gone abroad.

Fabregas and Sanchez were kicked out of Barca for not being good enough. Yaya was the defensive midfielder not worth 25 million.

 

[sam-caddick]

My fault I meant my post addressing why PSG are exempt.

However, arguing about how a couple of other teams get through it ie PSG by being based in Paris and Porto being at the mercy of agents( and not that successful apart from when they did have a number of Portugese under Mourinho does not change things).

If you can always attract the best players in the world then you don't need your country to produce them, but no English team can attract the best in the world. So to compensate we need to produce our own. We don't have the same situation as PSG or even Inter Milan had in the past.

SIlva, Aguero, Yaya, Hazard, Fabregas, Sanchez, Di Maria even Falcao (at the time) etc

Reasons for top quality players moving clubs nowadays are more financially motivated than it is by prestige. Doesn't matter where the league is with regard to standard, chuck enough money at someone and they'll pack their bags; as is the case in every league.

Only Aguero out of them was a very big name and even then he was still not at the top level nor even the highest rated youngster. Falcao has just come back from a career threatening injury and nobody else wanted to take the risk.

Di Maria is probably the biggest name out of the rest and it took a very unique circumstance for him to leave much like Ozil. Even then he wanted to go to PSG and will probably end up there at some point.

Silva, Yaya, Fabregas, Sanchez are not top tier names. Neymar, Suarez, Bale, Ronaldo, Pogba, Zlatan, Etoo, Benzema, Thiago Silva, Cavani, Pastore and Kroos are just some of the players that were much bigger names. Of course the bigger name does not mean the better player, but a lot of the time it does. Our last two players of the season (whether deserved or not) have just gone abroad.

Fabregas and Sanchez were kicked out of Barca for not being good enough. Yaya was the defensive midfielder not worth 25 million.

In his pomp at City he is a 50m box to box midfielder, age is unfortunately catching up with him.

I still think Silva is the best number ten in the business and overtaken Iniesta now.

I agree about player recruitment though, we just seem to bring in the cast offs from other big clubs and players just not quite good enough to be signed by the big clubs.

managerial appointments have not helped either.

 

[TCIB]

Prem has no hassle attracting the best players, it is a load of shite in reality.
You simply juggle between about 5 clubs as tier 1, Chelsea, ourselves,Bayern, Barca, Madrid. You could maybe shove PSG in that bracket also.
I am not saying we are as good as Bayern etc but there are only so many places at a club and we are in that top bracket. That palace/utd fan saying otherwise is just some resentful rubbish imo. Not sure why he holds that view but nor do i care either tbh, he is entitled to his opinion.

If you just say whoever plays for Barca, Bayern, Madrid is world class though then your best off going back to the ps4.
You will draw the line at "top clubs" to suit your own agenda.

 

[pudge]

My fault I meant my post addressing why PSG are exempt.

However, arguing about how a couple of other teams get through it ie PSG by being based in Paris and Porto being at the mercy of agents( and not that successful apart from when they did have a number of Portugese under Mourinho does not change things).

If you can always attract the best players in the world then you don't need your country to produce them, but no English team can attract the best in the world. So to compensate we need to produce our own. We don't have the same situation as PSG or even Inter Milan had in the past.

SIlva, Aguero, Yaya, Hazard, Fabregas, Sanchez, Di Maria even Falcao (at the time) etc

Reasons for top quality players moving clubs nowadays are more financially motivated than it is by prestige. Doesn't matter where the league is with regard to standard, chuck enough money at someone and they'll pack their bags; as is the case in every league.

Only Aguero out of them was a very big name and even then he was still not at the top level nor even the highest rated youngster. Falcao has just come back from a career threatening injury and nobody else wanted to take the risk.

Di Maria is probably the biggest name out of the rest and it took a very unique circumstance for him to leave much like Ozil. Even then he wanted to go to PSG and will probably end up there at some point.

Silva, Yaya, Fabregas, Sanchez are not top tier names. Neymar, Suarez, Bale, Ronaldo, Pogba, Zlatan, Etoo, Benzema, Thiago Silva, Cavani, Pastore and Kroos are just some of the players that were much bigger names. Of course the bigger name does not mean the better player, but a lot of the time it does. Our last two players of the season (whether deserved or not) have just gone abroad.

Fabregas and Sanchez were kicked out of Barca for not being good enough. Yaya was the defensive midfielder not worth 25 million.

Pastore over Silva? Even in name recognition? Over Fabregas? Hazard was one of the most sought after young players in football and chose the Premier League. Suarez did the same when he chose Liverpool and if you're gonna bring up special circumstances you could argue he made his stay here unbearable and had to leave.

Silva turned down Real when he joined us and could walk into any team in the world.

Are you on the wind up tonight?

The Premier League has no trouble attracting the best players, more teams have more pull in this league than the number of teams in La Liga/Ligue 1/Serie A/Bundesliga etc respectively.

English teams failures in Europe aren't down to a lack of homegrown "world class" players. Teams like Liverpool (with Sterling, Sturridge even Henderson) and Spurs (with Kane and consistently playing the likes of Dier and Mason) who have arguably the best of the young talents and are playing them are out and Fiorentina played a total of 2 Italians during the two legs against Spurs. (are they exempt as well?)

It may hinder your national team (which I give no fucks about) but doesn't come into play on night's like tonight.