Champions League Coefficients - are they fair?

[Kompany is King]

If Liverpool qualify for Champions League next season, will their 'history' get them into Pot 1 or 2 or will they have to start in Pot 4?

 

[BigJoe#1]

I know the majority would like to go back to the days of Hamburg v Malmo in the final

What year was that?

Malmo v Forest

Hamburg v Forest

Nottingham Forest, ruining football since 1978' even prevented a Malmo v Hamburg final

 

[BlueMoonraker]

I'd like to see a competition with just the champions of each league involved.

Maybe a preliminary round for the champions of lesser leagues, then a straight draw from round one, with no seedings.

Could call it something like, The European Cup maybe?

Probably a shit idea.

Oi, trouble causer. Calm down!!!!!

 

[croasdale]

No, it's completely fair. Seeding sports events for draws is important, and done in almost every competition worldwide. Would you rather see Roger Federer play Rafael Nadal in the first round of Wimbledon, or the Final? While you can ask if the current system is perfect, saying that seeding is unfair just stinks of sour grapes.

I wouldn't want to see domestic performance brought in to the seeding process, as then we have to ask questions about whether the champion of Macedonia is equal to the champion of Germany, and that's just another form of bias for the 'big clubs'.

I think suggestions earlier in this thread such as making performance last year have more weight than performance five years ago, and beating a team with a high coefficient be worth more than a team with a low coefficient, but that does bring more complexity into an already reasonably complicated procedure. It would be doable definitely, but it would make it harder to understand for the everyday fan and therefore bring in more questions of "Is it rigged?" which they seem to be facing now for no other reason than people being unhappy with where their team is seeded.

We will be mainstays in the Champions League for years to come. We will improve our seeding year on year. We will eventually be a Pot one team. We just have to earn it.

 

[Mr Ed (The Stables)]

No. They're not, no seeding is fair it protects the established elite.

Absolutely this. Just like FFP, they have to protect the G8 or whatever it's called now. Is Newcastle still a member of that out of curiosity?

 

[Listerfiend]

I know the majority would like to go back to the days of Hamburg v Malmo in the final but if they got their wish I think they would moan about the standard of the final.

Despite the fact that Hamburg v Malmo never happened, there were some cracking European cup finals. Hamburg did beat Juventus in 1983 - a Juventus team containing the likes of Zoff, Gentile, Cabrini, Bettega, Rossi,Platini & Boniek. if that's not quality then I don't know what is. Hamburg that night included from memory the unfortunately named Horst Hrubesch & current Fulham boss Felix Magath.

Then there was the almost decade long dominance during the 70s / 80s of English clubs. European nights in those days were great, knowing that any slip up even in the early round could mean an exit.

Not saying it was higher quality, but it was certainly more exciting. Depends what you'd prefer; I'd go for excitement every time.

The only really poor game I can remember was the 1991 final between Red Star Belgrade and Marseille where a Red Star team featuring the likes of Savicevic, Pancev, Mihajlovic and Prosinecki seemed to be intimidated by a Marseille team featuring Chris Waddle (go figure) and seemed to play for penalties right from the off. It worked, but that was down to tactics, not quality.

JMHO

 

[Listerfiend]

Since this piqued my interest I just did some quick research, and found it interesting that Barcelona's first European Cup win in 1991-92 was also coincidentally the first time that a group stage was included. Also that this was Spain's first win since 1966.

Furthermore, due to winning 3-2 at home and losing 0-1 away versus Sparta Prague in the group stage, they would have been eliminated in previous comps (albeit a different situation).

Make of that what you will.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Since this piqued my interest I just did some quick research, and found it interesting that Barcelona's first European Cup win in 1991-92 was also coincidentally the first time that a group stage was included. Also that this was Spain's first win since 1966.

Furthermore, due to winning 3-2 at home and losing 0-1 away versus Sparta Prague in the group stage, they would have been eliminated in previous comps (albeit a different situation).

Make of that what you will.

I know you said it was an albeit different situation but you cant compare group stages with 2 leg knock outs. They finished 3 points clear.

There was a young Roberto Mancini playing in that final for Sampdoria.

 

[Listerfiend]

Since this piqued my interest I just did some quick research, and found it interesting that Barcelona's first European Cup win in 1991-92 was also coincidentally the first time that a group stage was included. Also that this was Spain's first win since 1966.

Furthermore, due to winning 3-2 at home and losing 0-1 away versus Sparta Prague in the group stage, they would have been eliminated in previous comps (albeit a different situation).

Make of that what you will.

I know you said it was an albeit different situation but you cant compare group stages with 2 leg knock outs. They finished 3 points clear.

There was a young Roberto Mancini playing in that final for Sampdoria.

I included that because since the Barca v Sparta tie was the first game, I assumed they were drawn together first hence they would conceivably been drawn together in a knockout round. What we know for a fact is that the results between those two teams was 3-2 and 0-1.

This was just an aside though to my main point that Barca were unable to win it until there was a group stage giving them the opportunity of an off day or two while still allowing them to progress.

The level playing field has been completely taken away now which helps them further.

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

So much cynicism on here! Of course the coefficients are fair. Just as FFPR are fair. Seeding is normal in sports events, such as tennis. That's why Pete Sampras is still seeded number 1 for Wimbledon even though he retired ten years ago. It's his coefficient.