Yep, anyone who uses “nomenclature” in a secondary language is either a bit of a fraud or a Billy Big Boots, intellectually, I’ll go for the former. I did like Liam Brady, great player.
Champions League Final | Inter Milan - Italian Media
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TinFoilHat
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northendenton
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Thank you Catarella
mexico1970
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Dropping a word like nomenclature then forgetting completely to not use a paragraph makes me sniff a lot ;)
Ducado
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People talk about Italy like it’s one homogenous country, it’s nothing like that, it’s a construct, each region is very different, I go to Calabria (in laws have a place there) and it’s so different than the North it’s another world, and each region tends to dislike the other regions
Great country and great people nonetheless, their sports press is even worse than ours for making up shit
Great country and great people nonetheless, their sports press is even worse than ours for making up shit
I don't know how to use multiquote, so if you all consent to my intentions, I'll try to answer to everyone quoting only a message. First of all, thanks to moderators who understood the situation repressing that gratuitous affront released following my first message, which I have written, in truth, a bit testily, after having read that Inter is at the level of very modest clubs of unpretentious clubs like Brentford or similar.
I will use more paragraphs whether for your eyes is more confortable. I am neither an englishman nor having any kind of roots outside Italy (at least, I am not referring to ancestral ascendance related to centuries ago, of which I am not aware). About this kind of topic, you could consult the administrator of the site, who must detain info about geographical localization of the IP addresses, even if I am not sure that, according to your binding juridical prescriptions, they may be considered sensitive data, legally speaking. In any case, I was born in Rome and I live in the same city in Rome, for what concerns your inquisitiveness.
About the term “nomenclature”: is merely a latin term derived from "nomen" and the verb "culare", whose meaning is more or less "to pronounce". The suffix by which the word passed to the derived languages in the Middle Age reminds a nomina agentis. Indeed, among the ancient Romans, the "nomenculator" was a slave or a freedman who had the particular task to remind to his "dominus sui iuris" (his owner) who were people towards whom paying homage and what epithets he had to use when talking to them reverently. English has a lot of terms taken from latin, able to pass on with slight differences as to graphemes (and phonetics), notwithstanding it is not a Romance language. So for us, the italians, is enormously simpler and intuitive using words that we have "in common" instead of that side of english derived from germanic lineage. Think about some words I've just written: simple (in italian "semplice"), intuitive (in italian "intuitivo"), name (in italian "nome"), to pronounce (in italian "pronunciare"), reverence (in italian "riverenza") and the list can continue on and on ... Being a second language, by the way, I am sure I will commit many mistakes in writing, despite using some terms which you are keen to reckon as being aulic (another example: in italian "aulico").
About the assertion of being a fan of some English team. In the 80's and 90's and in the first decade of the new century, in Italy we were quite boastful, reputing Premiership and Premier League tournaments of a very low level, absolutely unworthy to be followed, being a a pure waste of time, and I don't say it because I have mocking purposes or to show desrespect but because this way of thinking reflected, in an objective way, a common convinction that "was hovering in the air" at those times (an italian idiom). I will tell you an anedocte. When Zola left Parma and went to Chelsea, there was a widespread belief that his career was at its dead point, for he abandoned Serie A when he was still young. In truth, the cases of italian players abroad were really counted on the fingers of only one hand, in that era, because it was a thing that could really prejudicate seriously the consideration we had about a player. We all believed, football federation, newspapers, television programmes, fans it was a very crazy decision by his side, also because he would have lost definitely his place among the call-ups in the National team. In addition to this, it was an established custom that our then coaches were keen to put a cross through a name of a footballer who tried to play abroad, whatever the league would have been. Therefore, the facts took their natural course and events emerged according to previsions. When, in 1997, he made another appearance under Maldini sr, the father of Paolo was overwhelmed by so negative critics only for having put his name in the list. There was almost a popular uprising moved by indignation. Later, he scored a decisive goal against England during a WC 1998 qualifiers but, despite this, this kind of success by him was not welcomed so warmly, and when Maldini had to choose between him and Roberto Baggio for France '98, he preferred the last, even if, it must be said, there was strong ostracism against Baggio as well at those time. Baggio was "culprit" of playing with Bologna and not in a top club.
After italian debacle in 1966, our Federation, which was already controlled by Agnelli, took an odd decision, that one of banning foreign players from Serie A, imposing to clubs not to sign new deals with them, while to those who were already playing in Italy, was granted the possibility to remain in Italy so to fullfil their contractual obligations. At that time, Inter was one of the most greatest club in the world, and, reasonably, would have still won some domestic tournaments, as it happened, but for battling in view of the continental cups, well, our starting line-up was ageing and it needed some fresh new faces. Eusebio and Beckenbauer had already signed a preliminary agreement with us (or, maybe, something legally more binding), but their respective pre-contracts ended to rescission. Since then, only in 1980 was agreed again to permit foreign players to play again. The Irish Liam Brady was one of the first to land in the '80s, and after Juventus and Sampdoria, he joined us, in 1984. That year we had a new president, ready to show his will to spend a lot. Rumenigge came too and we had many other good italian players. As I wrote, we had very bad opinion about english style at playing football and for us, there was not so big differences with irishes. We considered irish football movement only slightly different: running and throwing ball as further as possible. For me it was quite a new experience admiring a player from those lands who was an artist with the ball. Since he came in Italy, I have always admired elegance of Brady's movements, his skills in touching the balls, the technique, grace and balance with which he knew to untwist himself from difficult situations in the field, so I was very happy to have him in my team. Pitily, he was at the end of his career, and stayed with us only a couple of years. Thanks to him, I later became a sort of a sympathizer of Eire national team, that in the middle of 80s was still emerging as a reality, like "Dynamite" Denmark team. I missed the opportunity of watching him here at Olympic Stadium, in the quarter-finals. He just retired a month before Italy '90 and wanted to took part to Irish expedition, but Charlton did not allowed him to do so. So when I had to choose the nickname in this forum, I thought to him.
From words formerly written, probably you may understand I have never got a particular english team to fondly root for. Perhaps, if I should give you an answer, I would indicate Ranieri's Leicester. And there is a straight reason for this choice. Being a relative of mine hailing from Sardinia, I have always had special attentions (I would not say, "I am a supporter of", because this has a stronger meaning) on Cagliari. Maybe you don't know, but Cagliari, in a certain way, in the eyes of the inhabitants there, has the unusual task to represent the entire island in terms of football. Yes, there was another team, called Torres from Sassari town, northwards, with which there has always been a strong rivalry, but Sassari Torres has never able to collect a presence in Serie A, and it's poorer and continuously refounded. After having its golden period between late '60 and the very beginning of '70s in Serie A, winning also a "Scudetto" with some of the greatest players Italy had in that period (Gigi Riva, Albertosi, Domenghini, Cera), Cagliari became again a club with no ambitions towards mid-70s. It started to struggle, until it was finally relegated to Serie B. Now and then, it was able to climb up reaching Serie A again but in 1985-1986 season important negative events occurred. In a season in which the club was just saved from bankruptcy in the winter, the team was still struggling in the Second League and the results on the pitch were very modest. Ulivieri, their manager, one of those first trainers in Italy who were trying to put in practice innovative tactical ideas brought from the Netherlands, was fired up early in the second half of the season, and, at the end of that championship, he was also convicted of, and later found guilty of, having sold football matches results in exchange for money (the new italian scandal in regards to illegal bets, called "Totonero-bis"). Therefore, Cagliari, as well as other few clubs not so much famous, besides Lazio, started the 1986-1987 campaign with five points of penalization. Lazio was charged with nine points, but they were able — thanks to Gigi Simoni, who, more or less, ten years later won UEFA Cup with Ronaldo in the final against "his" Lazio — to avoid relegation in the Third professional league, in a quite unhoped-for path (at those times only two points were assigned for every match won). Cagliari, instead, was relegated and spent two seasons in C1 tournament. At that point, the club was sold again to some local investors and a very young Ranieri was appointed as its coach. He just retired as a defender only two years before, and thanks to Cagliari he firstly made his name as a manager. He guided Cagliari through two consecutive promotions, yet gained passing through some difficult moments, he won the Italian Cup reserved to clubs who were partecipating in the lower leagues, and he made a miracle in spring of 1991 avoiding an almost sure new relegation. All of this happened just before Ranieri had the difficult task to uprise Napoli, just after Maradona was compelled to escape from Italy.
About "rag rejects", I think to have understood you are referring to two players in our line-up: maybe Lukaku is one of them, and the other could be Darmian or Mkhitaryan. When Ernesto Pellegrini's cycle was almost ending, after UEFA Cup in 1991, Sammer joined us for 1992-1993 campaign. It was a very hard time for him, since, in few years, he went from poverty and deprivation experienced in GDR (or DDR as you wish) to the wealthy world in Baden and in Italy. When he lived in Milan, he was not at his ease, also because all the german players we had (Matthaus, Klinsmann, Brehme) had already moved away. As he told many years later, he had a fruit box and a chair as the only furniture in his italian apartment apart the bed (maybe an indication of his struggle to settle in a different country, and the will of departing as soon as possible? I would not know). However, this difficulty of familiarizing also with the rest of the athletes had more than a repercussion to his performance with us, and furthermore, our then coach, made him play as a midfielder. After only few months we sold him, in autumn. Then, five later he won the Golden Ball, playing in his natural role, as a defender.
Could I call Sammer a rag? No, I couldn't, despite italian championship in those days was considered unanimously the richest and the most difficult league in the world. So how could it happend that a marginal league, at the eyes of many people, as Bundesliga was, produced a player deserving the Balloon d'Or? This can be repeat for many players in football history. What I want to say is that we must evaluate every single aspect, perentory judgements shouldn't be elaborated, for they are always spoilt by parameters not taken in a adeguate consideration. Andrea Pirlo, for example, was considered one of the biggest bluff when he used to play for Inter, even if Tardelli (not in Under-21) helped him to perform very badly, but then Ancelotti remembered that Mazzone used him in a certain way, and Pirlo became Pirlo, and Ancelotti passed as the man who "created" a new role for Pirlo. A similar speech we can apply with Lukaku: Roberto Martinez, alongside Conte and Inzaghi, knew how to use him. In comparison, some other coaches (Tuchel) didn't understand how to make the most of him.
About the thing related to Gagliardini, I am sure to have read it among the pages, but, excuse me, I cannot remember where precisely.
About "TinFoilHat" message: I don't have fear of City, and, above all, fear is not overwhelming me. It's not haughtiness or arrogance but a sort of peace of mind. I will explain this. In 2010, I was quite sure of winning against Bayern because they were not so strong, apart Robben and Ribery, while we have key-players in every role very famous (only Milito was the real surprise, also for Inter fans). But, to tell truth, I must admit that supporting Inter in the past decades was quite a challenging experience: you could never be sure of winning easily, because Inter was able to lose a match while winning it three-nil with only ten minutes before the final whistle. However, by the looks of what I've watched in the last years, it seemed to happen the contrary. This year, I have no worry for the opposite reason. For how our season took its shape, we are satisfied to be in the final, it wasn't expected, there were many internal problems, above all financial ones in our society, then there were injuries in crucial periods, allegedly some sorts of internal feuds among the players (and maybe also between Inzaghi and Marotta, the CEO). But, above all, I know what Inter qualities are and what we will play on Saturday, is a single match in a neutral country, open to every results. I tend to have faith in Inzaghi, even if his surname is not Guardiola. Losing against the fallen Milan of nowadays would have been a tremendous shock, instead, not losing the final against City.
This does not mean that Manchester City won't be able to win 3-0 over Inter: what I want to say is that every match has its own history, and only the field can "talk" as we say in Italy. If you play chess you can understand better what I want to explain, the team who will show itself weaker in the defensive phase played in the midfield will surely lose. But we either City or Inter have strong experienced midfielders, really reference points of their respective National teams. What I want to avoid is a match decided by referee decisions, things like penalty kicks or red cards given too lightly, no matter which team will be the beneficiary of them. It must be a feast for both of us, regardless to whom will be able to win at the end. Winning or losing without recrimination.
Possibly the most boring post ever in here, I couldn’t get past the first three paragraphs.
franksinatra
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Fascinating post and thanks for taking the time to share.
I would not disagree of your view of English football and the fact that Serie A had little to envy in the 80s and 90s. Its funny you mention Zola as I went out to Italy in 1996 and watched the great Ac Milan side face Parma’s Zola and the difference in technique, playing style, in comparison to the Premier league was like night and day. AC clinched the title that day, but the overriding memory was of watching the defenders, it was like they were connected by a piece of string, such were there movements in sync.
Thankfully two major events happened in English football since then, Arsene Wenger arrived along with many great foreign players such as Klinsmann, Dumitrescu, Zola (of course), Vieira etc and latterly and more importantly, especially for City fans, Pep turned and has completely reinvented the game in this country.
Playing out from the back, goalkeepers acting as deep lying playmakers, inverted wingers, false nines, defenders stepping into the midfield pivot role. In the first trophy winning season we played a 4-1-2-3 formation with David Silva and Kevin De Bruyne playing as two number 8s and finding the pockets between the midfield and defence. This formation had not been seen since the late 50s, which was known as the ‘Revie plan’ (helped City win the Cup In 1956) and influenced by the great Hungarian side of that period.
After a great start in 2016/17 we suffered a few heavy defeats and these ideas were derided as not suited to the English game, seven years layer you can walk around any school field or at even the lowest level of football sides are trying to replicate those principles of playing out from the back, the change has been huge and it is thanks to one man and one man alone.
With regards Inter there is no reason you should not feel confident.
The english press are making out City are huge favourites, but don’t take this as any arrogance on our part, most fans know this is likely to be an extremely difficult game and the press only want to use this as a stick to beat us with if we do lose.
I have to admit I have not watched huge amounts of Inter this year. Tactically we rarely face a 3-5-2 formation in England and it will be interesting to see if Inzaghi starts with Dzeko or Lukaku although I think he will play the latter. We rarely if ever face a front two as most sides are too scared to leave spaces in other areas of the pitch.
Also Pep likes to have his wide players hug the touchline so it will be interesting to see if your fullbacks defend deeper, to block this space, and potentially concede the midfield or push the fullbacks further forward, to contest the midfield, and leave space behind which City could exploit in the transition, with the likes of Haaland, Grealish, KDB running at your back three. I think that will be the key area and tactical decision which will decide the match.
Obviously when I have watched Inter, Barella is the player I most enjoy watching, wonderfully technically gifted footballer but also extremely competitive and passionate. He is a player you could imagine in a Pep side and quite similar to our own Bernardo Silva style wise. Along with Pellegrini of Roma and to a lesser extent Tonali are three players I hugely enjoy watching.
It seems Martinez has also got over his struggles at the World Cup and is in good form.
Anyway may the best team win.
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2 more than me