Champions League pots

[Anonymous]

For me the points and pot system is just another way of UEFA trying to keep the status quo of the "elite" teams in Europe. As others have said, how can a team who finish third or fourth be placed higher than a team who wins their league? For me, the winners of the top 8 countries based on FIFA rankings should go into separate groups and the rest are drawn out at random, none of this pot 2, 3, 4 rubbish. Cant make my mind up on the teams from the same league cant play each other though. Over the last 10 years, most seasons I could have picked 80% of the teams who would make it through to the KO rounds, there are always surprises but generally you can predict the teams once the groups have been drawn. If Platini really wants FFP then it has to be fair across the whole board, the way to earn more money is to get into the later rounds, so make it fairer for teams to make the later rounds. If you end with 4 top teams against each other in the groups, then we will really find out who the best are, not playing some non-descript Bulgarian team made up of part-timers!

For everyone the points and pot system is a way of UEFA trying to keep the status quo of the elite teams in Europe and inherently stifle development of new competition.

Financial Fair Play goes one further and says, you are either in or you're out. If you're out, you ain't coming in. Like Tescos versus a family ran cornershop, there is only one long term winner.

Exactly. Do you not remember Sir Bobby Ticket Tout saying the system is fair, "...after all who wants to see Steaua Bucharest in a European Cup Final..."?

 

[Mental_blue]

The Europa League is a trophy worth winning despite the tediously arrogant attitude the English media and many fans (including some of our own) have towards it.

100% correct and this is why I was surprised to see so many on here write it off as a pointless risk, when the chance to finish the group in 3rd was still in reach.

We did finish the group in 3rd haha Ajax went through on head to head games which is a ridiculous rule as we finished 3rd

HTF did we finish 3rd? We got 3 pts from 3 home draws. Ajax beat us and drew at the Etihad making 4 pts. WTF has head to head got to do with anything?

 

[SWP's back]

100% correct and this is why I was surprised to see so many on here write it off as a pointless risk, when the chance to finish the group in 3rd was still in reach.

We did finish the group in 3rd haha Ajax went through on head to head games which is a ridiculous rule as we finished 3rd

HTF did we finish 3rd? We got 3 pts from 3 home draws. Ajax beat us and drew at the Etihad making 4 pts. WTF has head to head got to do with anything?

Ignore him, he is still confused as to how the next round of the cup is both the 6th round AND the quarter final.

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

We did finish the group in 3rd haha Ajax went through on head to head games which is a ridiculous rule as we finished 3rd

HTF did we finish 3rd? We got 3 pts from 3 home draws. Ajax beat us and drew at the Etihad making 4 pts. WTF has head to head got to do with anything?

Ignore him, he is still confused as to how the next round of the cup is both the 6th round AND the quarter final.

What a whopper, eh?

 

[JollyGood]

For me the points and pot system is just another way of UEFA trying to keep the status quo of the "elite" teams in Europe. As others have said, how can a team who finish third or fourth be placed higher than a team who wins their league? For me, the winners of the top 8 countries based on FIFA rankings should go into separate groups and the rest are drawn out at random, none of this pot 2, 3, 4 rubbish. Cant make my mind up on the teams from the same league cant play each other though. Over the last 10 years, most seasons I could have picked 80% of the teams who would make it through to the KO rounds, there are always surprises but generally you can predict the teams once the groups have been drawn. If Platini really wants FFP then it has to be fair across the whole board, the way to earn more money is to get into the later rounds, so make it fairer for teams to make the later rounds. If you end with 4 top teams against each other in the groups, then we will really find out who the best are, not playing some non-descript Bulgarian team made up of part-timers!

So you want to increase the probability for weaker teams to get lucky? Right now, if a pot 4 team makes it to the k.o.-stage, they proved they are good enough. In your case it's even more about luck. Now finishing second is almost always possible for teams out of pot 3 or 4, they have to beat a good team but not a great one to finish second. With your idea, almost every time there will be at least one group with 2 out of the top8 teams in europe. In these groups the weaker teams have absolutely no chance to go through while in other groups one of the small teams will aways go through. It's not perfect now, but what you're suggesting sounds like a lottery.

In your opinion, should the competition at least try to have the 8 best teams in the quarter finals? Or should it all be about the draw, making it possible to get to the final without ever facing a top8 team?

Your idea, that there shouldn't be a team coefficient to determine who's in pot 1,2,3 or 4, doesn't sound fair to me either. Let's say two teams play in europe for 4 years without winning the league. Team 1 never tried to compete, played reserve players all the time and never made it out of the group stages. The other team tried everything to win, playing the best players available, reaching the quarter and semi finals several times. In the 5th year Team 1 wins the league, one point ahead of Team 2. Now you think it's fair that Team 1 should be in Pot 1 even though they didn't show any respect for the european competition, at all? While all the games Team 2 won in Europe in the last 4 years shouldn't count, because they finished one point behind in the league?

It shouldn't be easy for new teams to get to the top. It wasn't easy for any team to get there, and it sure as hell isn't easy to stay at the top. Teams like Dortmund or Juventus who won the CL in the last 20 years dropped out and have to fight their way back. Bayern, Real and Milan fell out of pot 1 a few years back. Bayern went down to 18th in UEFA's team coefficient for example. Happens, others have the chance to establish themselves at the top. Bayern turned it around, finishing ahead of pot 1 teams in their CL groups and now they're back in Pot 1.

The system works, playing great in europe is rewarded, as it should be. The european competitions are great when teams play their best football in them. Teams disrespecting the competition (for example playing the second team in europe instead of trying to win with the best players) shouldn't have an advantage.

 

[berryblue]

Last season Villareal were in pot 2 and didn't gain a point in our group. This season Dortmund were in pot 4, won the group and were undefeated

There won't be many teams hoping to draw us in their group whether we're in pot 2 or 3, despite our poor showings over the last two seasons

In fairness Villareal lost their 2 best players to injury. Not the same club without those 2 dynamic strikers.

Sure there is a chance that you can get stuck in a tough group no matter what pot you end up. But the chances are less if you are in the top pot.

Agree. We were stung by two Pot 4 Clubs Napoli & Ajax. Doesn't seem to matter what Pot you start in.

 

[Marvin]

Doesn't matter who we get if we play like we do in europe. Ajax got properly done by Bucharest last night, and yet made us look complete chumps.

Performance a bigger problem than the draws, got to sort ourselves out before we can complain about being unlucky.

Luck did not come into it apart from two tough draws which were a lot more difficult than they could have been, even allowing for not being top seeds.

We made some maddening individual errors that were uncharacteristic of us, and put us under lots of pressure in the games. And that was after losing the opener at Real Madrid which didn't help

 

[JGL07]

Last season Villareal were in pot 2 and didn't gain a point in our group. This season Dortmund were in pot 4, won the group and were undefeated

There won't be many teams hoping to draw us in their group whether we're in pot 2 or 3, despite our poor showings over the last two seasons

In fairness Villareal lost their 2 best players to injury. Not the same club without those 2 dynamic strikers.

Sure there is a chance that you can get stuck in a tough group no matter what pot you end up. But the chances are less if you are in the top pot.

Agree. We were stung by two Pot 4 Clubs Napoli & Ajax. Doesn't seem to matter what Pot you start in.

Dortmund were pot 4. Ajax were pot 3.

 

[moomba]

Last season Villareal were in pot 2 and didn't gain a point in our group. This season Dortmund were in pot 4, won the group and were undefeated

There won't be many teams hoping to draw us in their group whether we're in pot 2 or 3, despite our poor showings over the last two seasons

In fairness Villareal lost their 2 best players to injury. Not the same club without those 2 dynamic strikers.

Sure there is a chance that you can get stuck in a tough group no matter what pot you end up. But the chances are less if you are in the top pot.

Agree. We were stung by two Pot 4 Clubs Napoli & Ajax. Doesn't seem to matter what Pot you start in.

It does matter, but we've been unlucky twice with Napoli and Dortmund.

Dortmund will be in the third pot next season I think, so even if we make the second pot we could be unlucky again.

But chances of a good draw are the better the higher you get in the rankings.

 

[Maldeika]

In fairness Villareal lost their 2 best players to injury. Not the same club without those 2 dynamic strikers.

Sure there is a chance that you can get stuck in a tough group no matter what pot you end up. But the chances are less if you are in the top pot.

Agree. We were stung by two Pot 4 Clubs Napoli & Ajax. Doesn't seem to matter what Pot you start in.

It does matter, but we've been unlucky twice with Napoli and Dortmund.

Dortmund will be in the third pot next season I think, so even if we make the second pot we could be unlucky again.

But chances of a good draw are the better the higher you get in the rankings.

Why have you been unlucky? If you would have played better than them - and yes, that is possible - you would have gone into the next rounds. You did not - than do not blame the pots. There might be easier and less easy teams - actually I thought Bayern's group this year was heavier than last year's group of Death even if Lille and BATE do not sound like strong competitors - but they know that they are underdogs and fight by far harder against you than an opponent that is on the same eye level.