Channel deaths | Four confirmed dead after migrant boat tragically capsizes (p 41)

[Churchlawtonblue]

This tragedy is a plague on both their houses (and a lot more besides). I could take you seriously if you were willing to recognise that 'us going alone' is undoubtedly a factor in this. Instead you choose to play 'you hate this country' card.
Who'd have thought 'taking control of our borders' wouldn't be straightforward when we live on an island?
Not forgetting of course that the one border we do have was similarly disregarded.

We voted to go alone, that is a fact whether you like it or not. I sugest you learn to live with that fact rather than live your life trying to blame everything on it.

 

[Blue Maverick]

This tragedy is a plague on both their houses (and a lot more besides). I could take you seriously if you were willing to recognise that 'us going alone' is undoubtedly a factor in this. Instead you choose to play 'you hate this country' card.
Who'd have thought 'taking control of our borders' wouldn't be straightforward when we live on an island?
Not forgetting of course that the one border we do have was similarly disregarded.

Can you tell me how we are supposed to help these people on French soil? Should we just rock up with a ferry everyday to Calais pile it full of people and sail back to Dover? It would be full everyday, how anyone blames us is beyond me, the French are watching them get on the boats and cross, they get to us we take them in. The French are pissing themselves, washing their hands of a load of people, they don’t give two shits if they make it or not, they make it it’s our problem, they don’t, oh well people will forget in a few weeks anyway. If we had a hard border with France like Poland is doing with Belarus would you advocate us doing what they have? I wonder what the French would do then?

 

[bluethrunthru]

This tragedy is a plague on both their houses (and a lot more besides). I could take you seriously if you were willing to recognise that 'us going alone' is undoubtedly a factor in this. Instead you choose to play 'you hate this country' card.
Who'd have thought 'taking control of our borders' wouldn't be straightforward when we live on an island?
Not forgetting of course that the one border we do have was similarly disregarded.

what none of them understood was that a border has two sides. Listening to people today - "we need to tell X to do this " - " other countries need to understand that...." - they seem to think that our word holds sway in the world and that we are respected because of empire. We are a small country cutting ourselves off from the rest of the world - our word is a worthless currency - Johnson and Frosty the Showman have spent the year threatening to renege on the deal they recommended and there have been suggestions that we can break international law at will. People like me are not the one's damaging this country and its reputation.

 

[hilts]

Can you tell me how we are supposed to help these people on French soil? Should we just rock up with a ferry everyday to Calais pile it full of people and sail back to Dover? It would be full everyday, how anyone blames us is beyond me, the French are watching them get on the boats and cross, they get to us we take them in. The French are pissing themselves, washing their hands of a load of people, they don’t give two shits if they make it or not, they make it it’s our problem, they don’t, oh well people will forget in a few weeks anyway. If we had a hard border with France like Poland is doing with Belarus would you advocate us doing what they have? I wonder what the French would do then?

What they are saying is we should process and accept applicants via foreign soil. This will stop people trying to get here on boats. However once we do that those refused will try to come on boats anyhow. If we accept most then more will want to come and then we will need to refuse more so they will come on boats.

The same posters will then complain that we are allowing people to try and make a dangerous journey and we should allow more in. Their simple logic is basically if anyone wants to come in then let them. They were the same with immigration.

It’s why they won’t give numbers because when someone rightly says what happens when that number is reached their argument is fucked because the exact same problem would still exist.

 

[blueinsa]

What exactly has brexit got to do with migrants trying to cross the channel by illegal means?

Im all ears?

 

[blueinsa]

What they are saying is we should process and accept applicants via foreign soil. This will stop people trying to get here on boats. However once we do that those refused will try to come on boats anyhow. If we accept most then more will want to come and then we will need to refuse more so they will come on boats.

The same posters will then complain that we are allowing people to try and make a dangerous journey and we should allow more in. Their simple logic is basically if anyone wants to come in then let them. They were the same with immigration.

It’s why they won’t give numbers because when someone rightly says what happens when that number is reached their argument is fucked because the exact same problem would still exist.

This.

It’s almost as if they believe a Labour government tomorrow and a life back under the wing of Brussels would stop incredibly sad incidents like this.

It wouldn’t. It would however suddenly see them change their opinions and I’m guessing the blame wouldn’t lie with a government who also won’t ever have an open door policy to this country.

At least I’d be able to agree with them for once though…….it wouldn’t be the governments fault in the same way it isn’t now.

 

[joe123]

What exactly has brexit got to do with migrants trying to cross the channel by illegal means?

Im all ears?

Whilst I imagine it matters very little to the poor sods attempting the crossing, it’s relevant in the sense that our government want to negotiate a return agreement with the French as part of the remedy. Which we had when we were in the EU.

Along with the rest of the sabre rattling the govt love, it won’t work. Although I would say in fairness to them that no government is solving this on their own. It needs proper multi national cooperation, but I doubt we’ll ever see it sadly.

 

[meltonblue]

Incorrect it is a French problem. The EU did nothing and neither do the French. This tradgedy reflects terribly on them and they know it. The people smugglers are operating on French soil and the boats are leaving from French waters. I will spell it out for you again as this isnt going in, the UK has no juristriction and the French dont care about these people, they are letting them live in appalling conditions. The French Police are watching them leave, yes there are videos of it, I wonder who is telling them not to intervene?? Macron didnt give a toss untill this week when people died and it reflected badly on him. Last month he was much more worried about a few fish than peoples lives remember that?!

I dont blame the poor people for wanting to cross, who wants to claim asyslum and live in a country that treats you like that.

How on earth you and others on here are managing to turn this on its head and blame the UK for this tradgedy is simply staggering. Do you really live in some cloud cookoo land where you sit and dream up ideas and fantasies as to how to blame anything and everything on the UK.

It’s a collective problem that needs effort and co-operation from both to solve. The smugglers are operating in both the U.K. and France, the likelihood of France ever being in a position of either being able to or wanting to patrol the entire of their northern coastline just isn’t going to happen, much like if they asked Italy or anywhere else to do the same on their border to stop any getting into France either.

They’ve significantly stopped transit via lorries and stopping a large proportion of the boats though, so it’s wrong to say nothing is being done. On the flip side, their treatment of those in the camps is even more horrific than ours is during the process of assessing asylum once they get here.

Both governments are already doing tit for tat arguments in the hope they don’t have to actually face into the problem and use it to whip up the narrative that it’s all the other sides fault, their respective voter bases are seemingly happy to oblige too.

 

[west didsblue]

It was happening before Brexit we didnt return any then. So that is irelevant isnt it. Just accept that the French werent doing anything until the tradgedy.

Another query is if the French authorities are looking after these people? why are they having to live in tents misery and squallor? They should be offered proper accomodation. Something doesnt stack up with the way they are being treated in France.

I’ve already accepted that the French are much more culpable than we are, however by us departing from the Dublin agreement there’s less motivation for the French to do what they’re supposed to do. It’s wrong but we have made it much more likely the French will only make a token effort to stop them because there’s no mechanism to send them back so they’re off their hands. Hopefully this tragedy will make them think that it’s more important to try and stop it happening again than trying to offload the problem to us thanks to us not being able to legally stop them.

 

[west didsblue]

We voted to go alone, that is a fact whether you like it or not. I sugest you learn to live with that fact rather than live your life trying to blame everything on it.

The French are learning to live with it by offloading their problems to us in the knowledge we can do fuck all about it. We’ve got to learn to live with the fact that when migrants land on our shores there’s no mechanism to return them so we have to deal with the problem.