Channel deaths | Four confirmed dead after migrant boat tragically capsizes (p 41)

hilts said:
The French are doing the same with the blame game. On the forum what is the point picking or just concentrating on one side. I have yet to hear a solution and quite frankly I'm not sure there is one.
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Of course they are. A bit of anti-rosbif rhetoric works as well at home for them as anti-frog rhetoric works here. But we've made it fucking easy for them with recent decisions.

None of this helps solve the problem which needs intelligence, co-operation and a move away from point scoring but we're not going to get that with the bumbling fool Johnson and a home secretary who is on record for saying she wanted to criminalise the rescue of drowning people. I suspect the same applies to the French government but I don't pretend to know a lot about French domestic politics.

In the cold light of day, if we had large numbers of illegals in this country who were doing their best to leave the country and become someone else's problem would we be going to a lot of effort to stop them? Particularly when the country they want to go to has withdrawn from the treaty that sets out the rules for this. That's what we're asking the French to do.

Also the migrants aren't stupid. The know the UK is no longer part of any agreements so if they make it here they're not being sent back to France. That's encouraging more to risk it as is borne out by the stats.
 
meltonblue said:
There isn’t a magic bullet, it needs multiple things to happen to resolve. Foreign processing centres would help, as would increasing the patrols on the beach, with this particular scenario. It won’t happen but it really needs a collaborative approach from multiple nations, not just us and France.
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Only way to stop people trying to cross is to make it pointless these craft can be seen from satellite and intercepted if they were then returned to France every time (would need agreement) there would be no point trying. Strongly believe we should take in from the camps we're application can be assessed and approved.
 
ganganvince said:
Only way to stop people trying to cross is to make it pointless these craft can be seen from satellite and intercepted if they were then returned to France every time (would need agreement) there would be no point trying. Strongly believe we should take in from the camps we're application can be assessed and approved.
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Yep I said similar -

“On the second point, depends how the processing is set up. If we were to come to an agreement with France (which is unlikely given the current relationship, admittedly!) that anyone intercepted at any point across the channel or even when they reach our shores that they’ll be returned to that processing centre, then the incentive to get here has gone, at least for those genuinely seeking asylum”
 
west didsblue said:
Of course they are. A bit of anti-rosbif rhetoric works as well at home for them as anti-frog rhetoric works here. But we've made it fucking easy for them with recent decisions.

None of this helps solve the problem which needs intelligence, co-operation and a move away from point scoring but we're not going to get that with the bumbling fool Johnson and a home secretary who is on record for saying she wanted to criminalise the rescue of drowning people. I suspect the same applies to the French government but I don't pretend to know a lot about French domestic politics.

In the cold light of day, if we had large numbers of illegals in this country who were doing their best to leave the country and become someone else's problem would we be going to a lot of effort to stop them? Particularly when the country they want to go to has withdrawn from the treaty that sets out the rules for this. That's what we're asking the French to do.

Also the migrants aren't stupid. The know the UK is no longer part of any agreements so if they make it here they're not being sent back to France. That's encouraging more to risk it as is borne out by the stats.
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Hold on. If that is the case you are saying these migrants know they do not have a valid claim for asylum.

If you’re right what this says to me is they have already tried for asylum in France and been rejected, largely exhausted any appeals and think I’ll go start the process again in UK because I know when my application is denied I won’t go back to France and be at the end of the process again. If this is the “on the ground” reality then nothing we can do will stop them trying these crossings. Nothing at all. They won’t use any “offshore” application routes because they expect to be refused.
 
metalblue said:
Hold on. If that is the case you are saying these migrants know they do not have a valid claim for asylum.

If you’re right what this says to me is they have already tried for asylum in France and been rejected, largely exhausted any appeals and think I’ll go start the process again in UK because I know when my application is denied I won’t go back to France and be at the end of the process again. If this is the “on the ground” reality then nothing we can do will stop them trying these crossings. Nothing at all. They won’t use any “offshore” application routes because they expect to be refused.
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It’s not nothing we can do, as that’s based on if we don’t come to an alternative agreement with how we process applications from people that do go via that route.
 
meltonblue said:
Yep I said similar -

“On the second point, depends how the processing is set up. If we were to come to an agreement with France (which is unlikely given the current relationship, admittedly!) that anyone intercepted at any point across the channel or even when they reach our shores that they’ll be returned to that processing centre, then the incentive to get here has gone, at least for those genuinely seeking asylum”
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If they get into British waters and claim asylum when intercepted we are obliged to process, interception would have to be in French waters.
 
metalblue said:
Hold on. If that is the case you are saying these migrants know they do not have a valid claim for asylum.

If you’re right what this says to me is they have already tried for asylum in France and been rejected, largely exhausted any appeals and think I’ll go start the process again in UK because I know when my application is denied I won’t go back to France and be at the end of the process again. If this is the “on the ground” reality then nothing we can do will stop them trying these crossings. Nothing at all. They won’t use any “offshore” application routes because they expect to be refused.
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They want to come to the UK for family or language reasons. They are playing the system and because there are no formal arrangements between ourselves and the EU they've got a better chance of getting away with it.
 
meltonblue said:
It’s not nothing we can do, as that’s based on if we don’t come to an alternative agreement with how we process applications from people that do go via that route.
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What changes to how we process applications would you suggest would make my post incorrect? That our asylum acceptance criteria is far more forgiving than that of say France? Maybe a “subprime asylum policy”, where we pretty much accept anyone?
 
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