City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

Re: City & FFP (continued)

M18CTID said:
Wreckless Alec said:
Blue Coop said:


Oh dear. quite a little tantrum. I expect he's stamping his feet too. Little point in arguing with this guy he's a zealot who has a superiority complex over everyone and everything. He's so certain of his own moral rectitude he will continue pontificating until someone twats him and teaches him a little bit about life in the real world. For his own sake I hope the insufferable little twat meets that person soon.

I think it's much simpler than that. I would take an educated guess that Barca84 is not a member of Amnesty International, doesn't give 2 shits about alleged human rights abuses in Abu Dhabi, and is only using it as a smokescreen for his real gripe - he's a bitter and twisted United fan that thought he was destined for a lifetime of taking the piss out of City and hasn't got a fucking clue how to cope with the rapid rise of our club. No football fan, least of all a United fan, can genuinely be so precious and moralistic. Not a fucking chance.

I hope our continued progression and success ruins the **** for decades to come.

Barca84 is, in fact, a full member at Redcafe.net. Interestingly enough, he doesn't mention the country with the longest charge sheet of human rights violations. Maybe because of the link between the owners, the stock exchange listing and that unnamed country. To prompt him along:


A UN Human Rights Committee (HRC) report delivered in mid-March harshly criticized the United States, citing a laundry list of human rights violations both on American soil and in countries around the world.

The report, compiled from the testimony of 18 independent experts, detailed rampant violations by the US government of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR).

The report condemned the US for failing to punish high-ranking military officers and private contractors for crimes, including torture and targeted killings, saying that only a “meager number” of criminal charges had been pressed, and against low-ranking personnel at that.

“The Committee notes with concern that all reported investigations into enforced disappearances, torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment that had been committed in the context of the CIA secret rendition, interrogation and detention programmes were closed in 2012 leading only to a meager number of criminal charges brought against low-level operatives,” the HRC concluded.

Testimony to the HRC highlighted the use of drones by the US to carry out targeted killings in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and elsewhere. Since Obama took office, US drones have killed more than 2,600 people in at least 400 strikes, according to documents submitted to the HRC by Human Rights Watch (HRW).

US imperialism has created a worldwide system of illegal prison camps, where US and foreign personnel carry out torture against supposed terrorists and other enemies of the American state. Evidence submitted to the hearing showed that the US is currently continuing to hold 154 detainees who have been cleared at its prison camp in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and that an additional 45 are being held on an indefinite basis without charges or trial.

The report found that the US applies “broad doctrines of legal privilege and immunity” to prevent torture victims from seeking compensation against their torturers.

As reaffirmed by US representatives during the course of the hearing, the US government invoked the principle of “extraterritoriality” to exempt itself from compliance with the ICCPR on foreign soil (the only other country to explicitly exempt itself in this way is Israel). The Obama administration’s position is that the ICCPR does not impose any “human rights obligations on American military and intelligence when they operate abroad.”

“The United States continues to believe that its interpretation—that the covenant applies only to individuals both within its territory and within its jurisdiction—is the most consistent with the covenant’s language and negotiating history,” said Mary McLeod, legal representative from the State Department, during the committee hearing.

“The U.S. insists it has no international legal obligations to respect the privacy rights of foreigners outside its borders,” said Andrea Prasow of Human Rights Watch.

The reports submitted to the HRC listed massive violations of the ICCPR also taking place within the US itself. Domestic violations cited during the reports included:

• Inhuman treatment of migrants, including use of lethal force on the US-Mexico border

• Dragnet surveillance

• Labor trafficking

• Widespread use of solitary confinement

• Trials of juveniles as adults, the use of life sentences against juveniles, incarceration of juveniles in adult institutions

• Criminalization of homelessness

• Racial profiling

• Stop-and-frisk policies

• Use of Special Administrative Measures (SAM), including monitoring of prison-attorney communications

• Widespread use of nonconsensual administration of psychiatric medication, electroshock, and other “coercive health practices”

The HRC gathered testimony from nongovernmental human rights groups on the American military operations. A “shadow report” submitted by the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) to the HRC, entitled “US Veterans and Iraqi Organizations Seek Accountability for Human Rights Crisis Resulting from a Decade of US-Led War,” noted “the lack of any recognition whatsoever by the US government of the disastrous and tragic consequences” caused by the war against Iraq.

The report pointed to extensive use of toxic weapons against the population, writing, “Iraq is now in the midst of a public health crisis, the full magnitude of which is still unknown, as cancer rates and birth defects have skyrocketed since the US invasion—widely believed to be the result of the US’s use of weapons made of depleted uranium as well as the unregulated use of other munitions and burn pits used to dispose of toxic waste.”

“In addition to the use of weapons containing depleted uranium, US officials and allies have admitted to using napalm-class munitions and white phosphorous, an incendiary agent that can burn to the bone, in Fallujah, Iraq and elsewhere. These weapons were reported to have been used in operations in populated areas and resulted in grave harm to civilians, including children. Similarly, the use of cluster munitions, which spread over a wide area and often fail to explode on impact, have resulted in the indiscriminate killing of civilians,” the CCR wrote.

“Despite having waged an illegal war based on false justifications, no civilian or military official has been investigated or held accountable for their role in fabricating the justification to go to war in Iraq. In fact, the current administration recently argued in a legal case brought by victims of the Iraq war that officials responsible for planning and waging the war in violation of international law should be afforded immunity and shielded from suit,” the report found.

According to the CCR’s shadow report, “conservative estimates” show that the US war against Iraq caused the direct deaths of 330,000 people, with indirect deaths resulting from unexploded weapons, malnutrition, the collapse of Iraq’s health infrastructure and the environmental fallout from the war totaling more than 1 million. Some additional 4.5 million Iraqis were turned into refugees by the war, and at least 4 million Iraqi children lost one or both parents.

Under the mantle of promoting human rights and democracy, US imperialism has been invading countries and overthrowing governments around the world for decades. As the latest UN report makes clear, Washington’s human rights pose is a fraud. The US government itself is the leading human rights violator on the planet, using whatever means necessary, including mass terror against civilian areas, to maintain the supremacy of American capitalism.
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

M18CTID said:
Wreckless Alec said:
Blue Coop said:


Oh dear. quite a little tantrum. I expect he's stamping his feet too. Little point in arguing with this guy he's a zealot who has a superiority complex over everyone and everything. He's so certain of his own moral rectitude he will continue pontificating until someone twats him and teaches him a little bit about life in the real world. For his own sake I hope the insufferable little twat meets that person soon.

I think it's much simpler than that. I would take an educated guess that Barca84 is not a member of Amnesty International, doesn't give 2 shits about alleged human rights abuses in Abu Dhabi, and is only using it as a smokescreen for his real gripe - he's a bitter and twisted United fan that thought he was destined for a lifetime of taking the piss out of City and hasn't got a fucking clue how to cope with the rapid rise of our club. No football fan, least of all a United fan, can genuinely be so precious and moralistic. Not a fucking chance.

I hope our continued progression and success ruins the **** for decades to come.



Bang on the money
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

Blue Coop/Manchester Dan's response to Barca84's latest pathetic rant - take a bow son!

What argument are you trying to pursue here - you don't agree with poor human rights? Excellent, welcome to the club. My response was aimed directly at the notion that I should feel guilty about the actions of our owners because I support Manchester City. I've supported City long before the current owners came along, and I will continue to do so, passionately. We fans don't choose our owners, so while your waving your moral compass around it doesn't give you the right to question and judge the ethical stance of City fans just because we continue to support our club. How is our club taking advantage of funds from the owner any different from yours taking advantage of funds from sponsorship deals heavily involved in the very practices you are condemning us for?

We do have a fit and proper person test for the ownership of clubs, and our owner passed and now holds a stake in clubs in England, Australia, America and Japan. It's amazing how so many different countries have allowed such a man into their game, or perhaps they've just realised that his investment is excellent for the game and the clubs involved. It's all about perspective, if you see a man punch another man in the face, but then give you £1,000 - what is your lasting impression of that man? I support the club, not the owner, and the club is benefiting greatly under his ownership, and therefore I support it. I will continue to support it until it becomes detrimental to the club.

You're justification that this is relevant to the topic of financial fair play is equally baffling as the argument you are trying to create. City overspending was no doubt a contributing factor to the introduction of FFP, but ongoing events in UAE play absolutely no part in the introduction of financial fair play (unless you can link me to the document where UEFA make direct reference to human rights conditions in the UAE?) - it's irrelevant. Using the logic you have outlined you could argue that if it was not for our owners then we'd never have been able to purchase Sergio Aguero - so let's go and set up camp in a Sergio Aguero thread to discuss the ongoing events in UAE. That doesn't make sense.
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

Surely the Rags are encouraging our 'despotic' owners? They have recently signed a huge deal with Chevrolet. Now forgive me, as a user of public transport and Shanks's pony, but don't the owners of those vehicles have to fill them with some sort of combustible fluid? An awful lot of that combustible fluid is going to directly benefit the economy of Abu Dhabi, and therefore HRH SM.
Now of course , the owners of such companies as Chevrolet wouldn't dream of throwing money at (bribing) politicians in the US, or providing spurious scientific reports, to downplay the effects of burning fossil fuels on climate change, therefore again benefiting our owners.
So please keep it up chaps, just try not to feel bitter each time you fill up your ragmobile.
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

The Light Was Yellow said:
M18CTID said:
Wreckless Alec said:
Oh dear. quite a little tantrum. I expect he's stamping his feet too. Little point in arguing with this guy he's a zealot who has a superiority complex over everyone and everything. He's so certain of his own moral rectitude he will continue pontificating until someone twats him and teaches him a little bit about life in the real world. For his own sake I hope the insufferable little twat meets that person soon.

I think it's much simpler than that. I would take an educated guess that Barca84 is not a member of Amnesty International, doesn't give 2 shits about alleged human rights abuses in Abu Dhabi, and is only using it as a smokescreen for his real gripe - he's a bitter and twisted United fan that thought he was destined for a lifetime of taking the piss out of City and hasn't got a fucking clue how to cope with the rapid rise of our club. No football fan, least of all a United fan, can genuinely be so precious and moralistic. Not a fucking chance.

I hope our continued progression and success ruins the **** for decades to come.

Barca84 is, in fact, a full member at Redcafe.net. Interestingly enough, he doesn't mention the country with the longest charge sheet of human rights violations. Maybe because of the link between the owners, the stock exchange listing and that unnamed country. To prompt him along:


A UN Human Rights Committee (HRC) report delivered in mid-March harshly criticized the United States, citing a laundry list of human rights violations both on American soil and in countries around the world.

The report, compiled from the testimony of 18 independent experts, detailed rampant violations by the US government of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR).

The report condemned the US for failing to punish high-ranking military officers and private contractors for crimes, including torture and targeted killings, saying that only a “meager number” of criminal charges had been pressed, and against low-ranking personnel at that.

“The Committee notes with concern that all reported investigations into enforced disappearances, torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment that had been committed in the context of the CIA secret rendition, interrogation and detention programmes were closed in 2012 leading only to a meager number of criminal charges brought against low-level operatives,” the HRC concluded.

Testimony to the HRC highlighted the use of drones by the US to carry out targeted killings in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and elsewhere. Since Obama took office, US drones have killed more than 2,600 people in at least 400 strikes, according to documents submitted to the HRC by Human Rights Watch (HRW).

US imperialism has created a worldwide system of illegal prison camps, where US and foreign personnel carry out torture against supposed terrorists and other enemies of the American state. Evidence submitted to the hearing showed that the US is currently continuing to hold 154 detainees who have been cleared at its prison camp in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and that an additional 45 are being held on an indefinite basis without charges or trial.

The report found that the US applies “broad doctrines of legal privilege and immunity” to prevent torture victims from seeking compensation against their torturers.

As reaffirmed by US representatives during the course of the hearing, the US government invoked the principle of “extraterritoriality” to exempt itself from compliance with the ICCPR on foreign soil (the only other country to explicitly exempt itself in this way is Israel). The Obama administration’s position is that the ICCPR does not impose any “human rights obligations on American military and intelligence when they operate abroad.”

“The United States continues to believe that its interpretation—that the covenant applies only to individuals both within its territory and within its jurisdiction—is the most consistent with the covenant’s language and negotiating history,” said Mary McLeod, legal representative from the State Department, during the committee hearing.

“The U.S. insists it has no international legal obligations to respect the privacy rights of foreigners outside its borders,” said Andrea Prasow of Human Rights Watch.

The reports submitted to the HRC listed massive violations of the ICCPR also taking place within the US itself. Domestic violations cited during the reports included:

• Inhuman treatment of migrants, including use of lethal force on the US-Mexico border

• Dragnet surveillance

• Labor trafficking

• Widespread use of solitary confinement

• Trials of juveniles as adults, the use of life sentences against juveniles, incarceration of juveniles in adult institutions

• Criminalization of homelessness

• Racial profiling

• Stop-and-frisk policies

• Use of Special Administrative Measures (SAM), including monitoring of prison-attorney communications

• Widespread use of nonconsensual administration of psychiatric medication, electroshock, and other “coercive health practices”

The HRC gathered testimony from nongovernmental human rights groups on the American military operations. A “shadow report” submitted by the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) to the HRC, entitled “US Veterans and Iraqi Organizations Seek Accountability for Human Rights Crisis Resulting from a Decade of US-Led War,” noted “the lack of any recognition whatsoever by the US government of the disastrous and tragic consequences” caused by the war against Iraq.

The report pointed to extensive use of toxic weapons against the population, writing, “Iraq is now in the midst of a public health crisis, the full magnitude of which is still unknown, as cancer rates and birth defects have skyrocketed since the US invasion—widely believed to be the result of the US’s use of weapons made of depleted uranium as well as the unregulated use of other munitions and burn pits used to dispose of toxic waste.”

“In addition to the use of weapons containing depleted uranium, US officials and allies have admitted to using napalm-class munitions and white phosphorous, an incendiary agent that can burn to the bone, in Fallujah, Iraq and elsewhere. These weapons were reported to have been used in operations in populated areas and resulted in grave harm to civilians, including children. Similarly, the use of cluster munitions, which spread over a wide area and often fail to explode on impact, have resulted in the indiscriminate killing of civilians,” the CCR wrote.

“Despite having waged an illegal war based on false justifications, no civilian or military official has been investigated or held accountable for their role in fabricating the justification to go to war in Iraq. In fact, the current administration recently argued in a legal case brought by victims of the Iraq war that officials responsible for planning and waging the war in violation of international law should be afforded immunity and shielded from suit,” the report found.

According to the CCR’s shadow report, “conservative estimates” show that the US war against Iraq caused the direct deaths of 330,000 people, with indirect deaths resulting from unexploded weapons, malnutrition, the collapse of Iraq’s health infrastructure and the environmental fallout from the war totaling more than 1 million. Some additional 4.5 million Iraqis were turned into refugees by the war, and at least 4 million Iraqi children lost one or both parents.

Under the mantle of promoting human rights and democracy, US imperialism has been invading countries and overthrowing governments around the world for decades. As the latest UN report makes clear, Washington’s human rights pose is a fraud. The US government itself is the leading human rights violator on the planet, using whatever means necessary, including mass terror against civilian areas, to maintain the supremacy of American capitalism.
Yeah , but they're doing it the right way!
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

Rags calling our owners for alledged Abu Dhabi human rights are either hypocrits or just thick as pig shit - apart from the excellent article which shows the USA to be one of the worst culprits in the world for human rights violations, just look at their many sponsorship deals... Mister Potato for example are Malaysian... hardly a shining beacon of decent human rights!
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

Just to continue the theme of human rights, but from slightly different and perhaps a more optimistic angle. I think ownership of a high profile football business that is Manchester City has the capacity to encourage the rulers of Abu Dhabi to change the way they govern their country and how they view the rights of the people that they govern. It is common knowledge that City have been bought primarily as a vehicle for the publicity and promotion of the perception of Abu Dhabi as a country and a culture. This in itself points to the fact that the rulers of Abu Dhabi want be seen as full card carrying members of the comity of nations rather than backward looking barbarians who just happen to have struck it rich with the oil that they have been blessed with. It matters to them that they are seen as moderate and progressive. It matters to them that they are respected. Rather than the idea of City being used to mask the excesses of an authoritarian regime, i think the exposure that City gives to the regime in Abu Dhabi increases the possibility of the rest of the world being able to nudge an otherwise authoritarian regime towards moderation and democracy and of the Abu Dhabi government being more receptive to that pressure in order to gain the acceptance and respect that they crave so much. The reaction of the Qatari government to the criticism of it's policy towards foreign workers would amply illustrate my point.
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

Can the mods separate out the Red Cafe response stuff into a separate thread please. It's nowt to do with the main thrust of this thread.
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

Manchester Dan and Bobby Manc continue to demolish Barca84 over on Red Cafe and they've done it far more eloquently than I ever could. This is every bit as impressive a victory on United soil as the 6-1 lol:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.redcafe.net/threads/manchester-city-facing-financial-fair-play-sanctions.388686/page-41" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.redcafe.net/threads/manchest ... 86/page-41</a>
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

BlueAnorak said:
Can the mods separate out the Red Cafe response stuff into a separate thread please. It's nowt to do with the main thrust of this thread.

Fair point - only posted it in here because it's lifted from their thread about City and FFP but agree a lot of it isn't related to FFP
 

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