City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

[ONTHERUNWITHTHAKSIN]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Would be interesting to see if they don't get top 4 then

Butthead can't complain if he misses out as he as been backed by the money men

The problem they have though is they haven't addressed their problems in defence and midfield

With City it's a gamble letting Negredo go but not as much as not strengthening the positions we needed to CB and DM

 

[I'm no cynic but...]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Just double checking. Anyone.

Did United splash £150mill because FFPR doesn't apply to them this season as they aren't in the CL? Meaning they may have to rein in their spending next Summer to comply with FFPR once again, if they get into the CL next season?

From Martin Samuel in The Mail:

HOW CAN UNITED AFFORD TO PAY FOR THEIR £200M SPENDING SPREE?


Q United’s spending is up to £200m. How can they afford it?

A When the dust settles it won’t be quite as big as that. The combined transfer fees for Angel di Maria, Ander Herrera, Luke Shaw, Marcos Rojo, Vanja Milinkovic, Daley Blind and the loan fee for Radamel Falcao will total around £160m. But a few sales, including Alex Buttner, Bebe and Shinji Kagawa, will bring net spend closer to £120m.

Q Fine, but £120m is still a gob-smacking sum . . .

A United are, by far, the biggest earners in English football. The latest available full accounts, for 2012-13, showed income of £363m, and gross profit £146m, albeit before debt servicing had been applied. For 2013-14, United’s income will have been around £430m, with big profits. In 2014-15, they are expected to have total income of £500m or more, by which time they should have recaptured their title of the richest club in the world, by income, from Real Madrid and Barcelona.

Q Why has their income grown so quickly?

A Of three main revenue streams — matchday income, commercial and broadcasting — the first is stable and the other two are soaring. New deals with Chevrolet and Adidas alone will boost United’s income by £80m a year. Global commercial deals with everyone from noodle suppliers, paint manufacturers and mobile firms are booming. If it can be monetised, United are doing it. And TV cash is growing, for United more than most.

Q Aren’t profits wiped out by loan repayments for the club’s debt?

A Only to an extent. The last set of financial accounts showed annual debt-related payments were an eye-watering £71m for the year in interest, debt restructuring and repayments. That’s £1.37m a week, or £195,000 a day, or £8,127 every hour. But that still leaves tens of millions spare. That ‘spare’ sum is growing by the year. Total debt is down from around £550m back then to ‘only’ £389m and falling. United’s accounts also show there has been a ‘spare’ pot of cash of around £100m in the bank for the past few years, available to be spent. It’s being spent now.

Q Can they keep spending like this?

A They won’t be able to spend £120m net every year. The point of doing it this time is they have needed to redress the under-spending of the past few years. They also need to get back into the Champions League, which plugs them back into another revenue stream, worth £50m a year, give or take. In some ways spending now is an attempt to guarantee bigger future income.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...hester-United-panic-buying.html#ixzz3CAhHJyfA
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

The closing sentence says it all. Investment to grow their business. Just like City, but unlike the rags, City were punished for it.

 

[Rammyblues]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

From Martin Samuel in The Mail:

Quote:
HOW CAN UNITED AFFORD TO PAY FOR THEIR £200M SPENDING SPREE?


Q United’s spending is up to £200m. How can they afford it?

A When the dust settles it won’t be quite as big as that. The combined transfer fees for Angel di Maria, Ander Herrera, Luke Shaw, Marcos Rojo, Vanja Milinkovic, Daley Blind and the loan fee for Radamel Falcao will total around £160m. But a few sales, including Alex Buttner, Bebe and Shinji Kagawa, will bring net spend closer to £120m.

Q Fine, but £120m is still a gob-smacking sum . . .

A United are, by far, the biggest earners in English football. The latest available full accounts, for 2012-13, showed income of £363m, and gross profit £146m, albeit before debt servicing had been applied. For 2013-14, United’s income will have been around £430m, with big profits. In 2014-15, they are expected to have total income of £500m or more, by which time they should have recaptured their title of the richest club in the world, by income, from Real Madrid and Barcelona.

Q Why has their income grown so quickly?

A Of three main revenue streams — matchday income, commercial and broadcasting — the first is stable and the other two are soaring. New deals with Chevrolet and Adidas alone will boost United’s income by £80m a year. Global commercial deals with everyone from noodle suppliers, paint manufacturers and mobile firms are booming. If it can be monetised, United are doing it. And TV cash is growing, for United more than most.

Q Aren’t profits wiped out by loan repayments for the club’s debt?

A Only to an extent. The last set of financial accounts showed annual debt-related payments were an eye-watering £71m for the year in interest, debt restructuring and repayments. That’s £1.37m a week, or £195,000 a day, or £8,127 every hour. But that still leaves tens of millions spare. That ‘spare’ sum is growing by the year. Total debt is down from around £550m back then to ‘only’ £389m and falling. United’s accounts also show there has been a ‘spare’ pot of cash of around £100m in the bank for the past few years, available to be spent. It’s being spent now.

Q Can they keep spending like this?

A They won’t be able to spend £120m net every year. The point of doing it this time is they have needed to redress the under-spending of the past few years. They also need to get back into the Champions League, which plugs them back into another revenue stream, worth £50m a year, give or take. In some ways spending now is an attempt to guarantee bigger future income.


Read more: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2740088/Radamel-Falcao-Angel-di-Maria-Manchester-United-panic-buying.html#ixzz3CAhHJyfA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... z3CAhHJyfA</a>
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

1) Rags by finishing 7th are not bound by UEFA financial regulations so they can spend what they want.
2) If the Rags qualify for Europe either EL or CL next season as I understand it they won't have any restrictions on them because they are a new team from lower down qualifying (as per Liverpool this season)

Effectively they have two years to get their finances back in order if they have gone over the limit and some of those ageing players will be off their books is how I see it, but I might be wrong.

 

[keith's curle]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Just double checking. Anyone.

Did United splash £150mill because FFPR doesn't apply to them this season as they aren't in the CL? Meaning they may have to rein in their spending next Summer to comply with FFPR once again, if they get into the CL next season?

As I understand it ( probably not that well ) it's not that FFP doesn't apply to them, but it is deferred. I think in the case of Liverpool they have to submit books this autumn and if they fail any punishment is applied next season. But I, not 100% sure I've got that right.

My understanding is that Liverpool's books are being looked at now, before they take part in this season's CL. Their full accounts haven't been finished yet, so its just the provisional figures. Same would apply for United.

Don't forget that should United get back into Euro comps their spending is assessed over a 3 year period as ours was initially. That means this years splurge will be hanging around for quite a while yet. If they do go mad with the cash again next year they are adding to, not replacing, their potential problems (if there are any). So that means Mata, Fellaini, Rooney's wages...........

 

[pardoeofftomexico]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Martin Samuel has not looked at how United's profit arose. It was drawn to my attention in another post that it only arose because of tax credits.

The 2013 profit of £146M was after including a tax credit of £155M. Without this there was a loss of almost £9M. Without tax credits there was also a loss in 2012 of £4M and in 2010 £44M. There were profits in 2009 of £6M and in 2011 £12M. If anyone wants to check these figures just do a search for Manchester United annual reports.

These figures would be acceptable under FFP. Their recent expenditure must add at least £20M amortisation but, of course, their income continues to expand. I guess all this is saying is that after paying interest they do not have unlimited funds as some may think and an extended period out of the Champions League would have a major effect on them.

 

[bluesoup]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Why are they getting tax credits and surely they do not count for FFP?

 

[Centurions]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Q1: When does our report comes out for the 2013-14 season, and if it does during or before Jan 2015, do we get the sanctions (partly or fully) lifted for the January 2015 window if we make a loss of less than 20 mil euro?
Q2: We have to show a net spend of less than 60 mil euro. For this window we are in profit, so will that affect be shown in the Jan 2015 window (no transfer restrictions)?
Q3: We are also monitored for the current season 2014-15 and are required to have a loss of less than 10 mil euro. If our financials come out like in early 2016 for this period, doesn't it mean that any decision on the overall sanctions will effectively take place after that?
Q4: What would it take for the rags to fail FFP if/when they are in europe (EL/CL)?

Q1. Probably published December, City give the impression that there will be no sanctions in January since they believe we'll be break even but the jury is still out.
Q2. See 2nd part of the 1st answer.
Q3. Next years accounts will end in May 2015 (the end of the monitoring period) and we should be in profit. You're confusing financial years with seasons. Our books are actually monitored every 3 months BTW.
Q4. Don't be silly, if it looks like there's a problem UEFA will change the rules for them.
Seriously though given their income they would have to miss out on the CL next year at least again and to keep spending £150m a window to come a cropper with FFPR. Sadly :(

 

[BLUEMATT23]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Forgive me for asking a question that has already been asked but when are we free from these restrictions?. Is it the start of next season?.

 

[Centurions]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I'd be interested in how their "decent business plan" works around these huge wages they're paying to the likes of Rooney, RVP, Di Maria and Falcao.

Agree entirely.

I'm surprised the Glazer nephews have allowed their inheritance to be 'dawn raided'.

As I said its a gamble and the only consolation they have for the Falcao loan is that they apparently have bypassed UK tax laws by paying the wage to Monaco. Buying him next year will cause all sorts of problems for them including parity claims from others.

I still find that hard to believe, Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs do not like to miss out on their slice of the pie.

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

so let me get this right...if heaven forbid we didnt get top four,if he wanted to sheikh mansour could spend whatever he likes as we wouldnt be in europe.we would then have 12 months to get the books balanced for ffp?
it just seems fucking bizarre..
spend to get in..
once in punished if you break the rules..
miss out..spend a load again trying to get in knowing you got 12 months to sort the books.

Ffp is very perverse..

edit..whatever happened to ffp in the premier league??I want to know qprs figures just out of interest