City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

[Blue Mooner]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Why are they getting tax credits and surely they do not count for FFP?

And why should they get any tax relief when they weren't paying their Corporation Tax demands?

I just provided the facts from a schedule that is easily available. I don't have the inclination to try to find out more and I am not sure I would be able to follow it all through and understand it properly anyway. I understand we are looking at various companies and it is probably very complex. However, a simple way of getting a credit to Profit and Loss Account is when there has been a previous reserve included in deferred tax in the Balance Sheet which may represent something that may become payable in the future but for which it is decided a reserve is no longer required. As an example if the sale of assets at Balance Sheet value would create a tax liability then a deferred tax liability would be brought into the accounts but which would not be immediately payable. If it were later decided that part of this liability would no longer arise then it could be credited back to Profit and Loss Account which would add to the profits for that year. In United's case there may be various non-UK associated companies that add to the complication. It may become more of a question for an international tax specialist rather than a Bluemoon discussion!

Sounds like a FFP tax dodge to me, were the rags making this provision in readiness to falsely inflate profits at a time when they want to make large scale investments ? Sounds dodgy.

I'm no accountant but I can tell that they made a profit of £12m in 2011, loss of £4m in 2012 and a loss of £8.7m in 2013, then, lo and behold 2013 turns into a significant profit of £146m as a result of this 'tax credit' - virtually mirroring the amount they have spent in this window.

Also, how can they be judged fairly when they are able to secrete their financial affairs through the secretive Cayman Islands which is a notorious tax haven.

If someone can explain how a business turning over £363m can incur a tax bill of 155m make a provision for it and then miraculously no longer need to pay it, turning a loss for 2013 into a significant profit ?

 

[bluechampion7891]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Q1: When does our report comes out for the 2013-14 season, and if it does during or before Jan 2015, do we get the sanctions (partly or fully) lifted for the January 2015 window if we make a loss of less than 20 mil euro?
Q2: We have to show a net spend of less than 60 mil euro. For this window we are in profit, so will that affect be shown in the Jan 2015 window (no transfer restrictions)?
Q3: We are also monitored for the current season 2014-15 and are required to have a loss of less than 10 mil euro. If our financials come out like in early 2016 for this period, doesn't it mean that any decision on the overall sanctions will effectively take place after that?
Q4: What would it take for the rags to fail FFP if/when they are in europe (EL/CL)?

Q1. Probably published December, City give the impression that there will be no sanctions in January since they believe we'll be break even but the jury is still out.
Q2. See 2nd part of the 1st answer.
Q3. Next years accounts will end in May 2015 (the end of the monitoring period) and we should be in profit. You're confusing financial years with seasons. Our books are actually monitored every 3 months BTW.
Q4. Don't be silly, if it looks like there's a problem UEFA will change the rules for them.
Seriously though given their income they would have to miss out on the CL next year at least again and to keep spending £150m a window to come a cropper with FFPR. Sadly :(

thanks for the answers. thats actually good if they are monitored 3 months it means we may as well be in the clear very soon

 

[bluesoup]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

All whiffs this!

 

[bluechampion7891]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Has anyone worked out how much money we could theoretically spend next season and beyond given increased revenue, the ending of the sanctions and the new FFP monittoring amount/period?

just a guess, if we spent a net of around 65 million in 2013-14 season and are expected to break even, then we would probably be able to spend significantly more (about 20-30 million) net if we expect a profit this year. especially due to the added BT sports money. But it would also depend on the wages of the incoming players, since our last years signing were probably in the 80k/week range

just a rough guess though

 

[Burtonrdblue]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

The Conspiracy engineered by UEFA has worked well !! Man Utd buying whoever they like and putting it on debt whilst a solvent club which has planned to build 6,000 new houses for the local community which is one of the most deprived in the UK has been sanctioned??! Crazy!! Or just plain bias?? What do Utd do for their local community? Fuck all!! There is a Cartel in European football consisting of 4 or even 5 clubs that UEFA want at the top table forever. FFP what a load of bollocks, but they don't bank on how clever the money men are at our glorious club,because I'm sorry to say UEFA we ain't going fucking nowhere !!!!

 

[Marvin]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

When Pellegrini next faces the press at Carrington and is asked the inevitable question about how he feels about the sale of Negredo I wonder if he willbreak with his quiet tradition of saying nothing and comment about Man Utd's £150m transfer spend and the sanction that contributed to Negredo's departure and the lack of a replacement.

Sport is supposed to take place on a level playing field. It's one thing playing against teams with different economic resources, apparent when teams face City, another when the rules of the game are bent to favour some clubs. Pellegrini as to work, compete and be judged in that environment,

Of course he'll say nothing, but perhaps he should.

In a few months the press will move from Carrington to the Etihad complex. I wonder when they make that move, and they look around whether they will start to wonder just what it is that MCFC have done wrong.

Tonight England play a friendly which most football fans have next to no interest in. People will comment about where has it gone wrong, yet when a football club builds a facility like MCFC have done for the development of the game this is something that should be rewarded.

We've had success on the pitch, and long may that continue, but now the investment off it is going to really start to take shape and I wonder whether with that the perception of our club will start to change.

 

[IanBishopsHaircut]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

When Pellegrini next faces the press at Carrington and is asked the inevitable question about how he feels about the sale of Negredo I wonder if he willbreak with his quiet tradition of saying nothing and comment about Man Utd's £150m transfer spend and the sanction that contributed to Negredo's departure and the lack of a replacement.

Sport is supposed to take place on a level playing field. It's one thing playing against teams with different economic resources, apparent when teams face City, another when the rules of the game are bent to favour some clubs. Pellegrini as to work, compete and be judged in that environment,

Of course he'll say nothing, but perhaps he should.

In a few months the press will move from Carrington to the Etihad complex. I wonder when they make that move, and they look around whether they will start to wonder just what it is that MCFC have done wrong.

Tonight England play a friendly which most football fans have next to no interest in. People will comment about where has it gone wrong, yet when a football club builds a facility like MCFC have done for the development of the game this is something that should be rewarded.

We've had success on the pitch, and long may that continue, but now the investment off it is going to really start to take shape and I wonder whether with that the perception of our club will start to change.

Jesus Marvin...have you hit the Prozac this morning?

You're positively oozing positivity ;-)

 

[Hung]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Does this mean that we are stuck with FFP now for good and that the ‘challenge’ we were hoping would see the end of it is over?

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/20/uefa-defeats-financial-fair-play-challenge" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... -challenge</a>

 

[moomba]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Does this mean that we are stuck with FFP now for good and that the ‘challenge’ we were hoping would see the end of it is over?

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/20/uefa-defeats-financial-fair-play-challenge" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... -challenge</a>

They just said that the Belgian court system is adequate to hear the case.

So still very much on.

 

[bluechampion7891]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Does this mean that we are stuck with FFP now for good and that the ‘challenge’ we were hoping would see the end of it is over?

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/20/uefa-defeats-financial-fair-play-challenge" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... -challenge</a>

this is a very old article. also covered in great detail over here in this thread, but the rough gist of it was that for some reason the EC cannot overrule it (probably b/c they reject that agents are directly affected by FFP) but they actually encourage the petitioner to continue through the courts