City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

Re: City & FFP (continued)

dobobobo said:
citizen_maine said:
moomba said:
But if they can't afford to pay the full price for the player in the first place they can't sell for a big profit.

I think it's more likely they'd be able to buy fewer players initially, but doubt they'd be unable to afford any

And how would they then be able to compete with the likes of Real Madrid, who (Real Madrid) are 600m Euros in debt but can afford to purchase players via sponsorship, etc?

Get better sponsors :-)

To be fair, I wasn't saying this was a cure for FFP
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

citizen_maine said:
dobobobo said:
citizen_maine said:
I think it's more likely they'd be able to buy fewer players initially, but doubt they'd be unable to afford any

And how would they then be able to compete with the likes of Real Madrid, who (Real Madrid) are 600m Euros in debt but can afford to purchase players via sponsorship, etc?

Get better sponsors :-)

To be fair, I wasn't saying this was a cure for FFP

Yep and do land deal with the council which requires an investigation by the European Commission.
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

moomba said:
I think 3rd party ownership does have an impact on FFP. We buy a £30m player on a five year contract and it costs £6m a year plus wages. Porto buys a £30m player on a third party deal and it costs them much less as a large part of the transfer fee and wages is borne by the third party.

In reality though it's just one of the ways FFP is unfair, it shoukd be getting banned for reasons other than FFP.
TPO has the same effect as individual/collective TV deals, and differing income tax rates across Europe. Will these advantages/disadvantages be next to be added to FFP's growing portfolio?

In terms of TPO, one way around it would be for a company to 'loan' a club the funds at a preferential rate of interest to 'buy' the player PLUS a percetage of profits if that player moves on which is very similar to the way venture capital firms operate. Also what about Chelsea buying up a lot of young talent just to loan them out for 2-3 seasons? Again on its own merit should this be looked at, and if yes, where does the bundling of FFP measures end?

The point I was making is these issues have merits in their own right and would only serve to dilute our arguments against FFP if included as a bundle. It's not the right or wrongs of TPO or varying income tax rates across trading blocks that bother me (albeit they need to be addressed), its the fact they are being mentioned as being looked at in connection to FFP which I don't believe will help our cause.
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

doomgob said:
How come we offended against FFP? Accidentally? Deliberately? Tactically? In ignorance?
Maybe in ignorance. We failed to realise that football is less about fair play but instead the maintaining of the status quo of the elite and that outsiders, if they couldn't be barred, would at least have life made difficult for them.
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

gordondaviesmoustache said:
There is a further aspect to FFP, which adds another layer to it being an anthema to the philosophy that underpins the EU, namely the freedom of the market to move goods, people and capital freely.

To allow this to happen businesses must fail. Companies if they are run poorly, make strategic errors or have products that are no longer relevant must be made to pay. If other companies, more hungry, nimble and innovative are providing a better product then it is in the public interest for them to flourish, or at the very least for the conditions to be in place that do not militate against that possibility.

I say this because united, on current evidence, are a poorly run business. They have made a series of poor decisions in terms of recruitment, have had to completely revise their putative corporate strategy, have a product which is looking tired and are, by their own admission, looking at significantly lower profits in the foreseeable future.

If there was a system in place which protected Phones4U, for example, that did not punish them for the mistakes they made as a business, which unfairly prevented others entering the fray and challenging their market dominance, this would most likely be acted upon by the EU. If, however, that situation was allowed to prevail indefinitely meaning that Phones4U were allowed to continue to make poor decisions in the knowledge that they were protected from the consequences that flowed from that, it's even more difficult to see how that would be tolerated by the EU.

We usually think about FFP as a means of keeping people out of a particular group, but even when reflecting upon those it seeks to protect we often assume they will continue to operate as efficient, well oiled commercial enterprises. Commercial history teaches us otherwise. It is littered with many examples such as IBM, Nokia and currently Tesco who once enjoyed dominance over a particular market, who became lazy and complacent and ultimately lost their power and relevance. FFP gives those clubs at the top protection against making difficult, but correct commercial decisions.

FFP protects and rewards bad business practice (aka "doing things the wrong way"). Football may, to some extent, be different from other businesses in terms of how it is addressed by the EU legal system, but how can anyone seek to justify that state of affairs?

Although I'm sure they will.

Great post Gordon :]
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

Have I got this right?
Platini tells us that FFP is designed to drive down inflation in the transfer and salary markets ( amongst other things) , then uefa sell the tv rights to the CL for an extraordinarily inflated fee , which is then distributed to already hugely wealthy participants in that competition, who then spend hugely inflated sums on "galacticos" and pay them £300,000+ a week thus causing huge inflation in the transfer and salary markets, widening the gap between themselves and the rest of the clubs, but uefa and the "elite" clubs don't mind because it means that will go on qualifying for the CL and picking up the huge sums ,and buying "galacticos" at hugely inflated inflated fees and salaries .........seems fair don't it?
 

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