City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

[Mothball]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Interesting - i'm not sure how it could be classed as 3rd party ownership when there would only be one owner, the CFG. So there would be no undue influence to exert as we'd be exerting it on ourselves. The point of banning 3rd party ownership from what I can gather is to stop agents having undue influence in moving players from club to club without the club itself having much control.

Under Premier League third party rules the individual club owns the registration of the player (and must own the full registration of the player, you're talking about two individual clubs owning 62.5% and 37.5% of the player each. It wouldn't work.

Why would City only own 62% of his registration? They are purchasing him outright, then agreeing to sell him again outright after X number of years to NYCFC. The player stays in the CFG family, however his registration is owned by City first and then by NYCFC.

Have you ever seen the Film the Firm?! Bloody hell it sounds like that

 

[aguero93:20]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Interesting - i'm not sure how it could be classed as 3rd party ownership when there would only be one owner, the CFG. So there would be no undue influence to exert as we'd be exerting it on ourselves. The point of banning 3rd party ownership from what I can gather is to stop agents having undue influence in moving players from club to club without the club itself having much control.

Under Premier League third party rules the individual club owns the registration of the player (and must own the full registration of the player, you're talking about two individual clubs owning 62.5% and 37.5% of the player each. It wouldn't work.

Why would City only own 62% of his registration? They are purchasing him outright, then agreeing to sell him again outright after X number of years to NYCFC. The player stays in the CFG family, however his registration is owned by City first and then by NYCFC.

If Manchester City purchase a player for £80m on a five year deal, then the charge to the books under FFPR is £16m per annum plus salary. You can't lower the charge by sharing costs with another club in CFG. Firstly it was part of our FFP settlement that we wouldn't share costs with the other clubs in the CFG, secondly sharing the costs of a players employment with an individual or entity not of the club is a violation of the PL rules:

1. No Club may enter into an agreement with a Third Party whereby that Club makes or receives a payment to or from, assigns any rights to or incurs
any liability in relation to, that Third Party as a result of, or in connection with, the proposed or actual registration (whether permanent or temporary),
transfer of registration or employment by it of a Player, unless:
i. it is permitted under Regulation B below; or
ii. The Association has approved the arrangement in accordance with Regulation A.2 below.
2. Before registering a Player for a Club, The Association must be satisfied that there exist no agreements between the Club or the Player and a Third
Party under which a Third Party will own or continue to own any registration or economic rights or the like in the Player following registration. FA Third Party Ownership Regulations
2 of 6
Consequently, unless otherwise permitted in accordance with the requirements of Regulation B below, a Club must submit to The Association any
written contract and the details in writing of any oral contract or agreement that it proposes to enter into which involves a Third Party:
a. selling, granting, acquiring or otherwise transacting any rights whatsoever in relation to the registration of the Player, the transfer of
registration of the Player or the employment of the Player; and/or
b. making or receiving any payment whatsoever, either directly or indirectly, in relation to the registration of the Player, the transfer of
registration of the Player or the employment of the Player.

It wouldn't be approved. We could give another CFG club an option to purchase a player from us for a set fee on a future date, the rules allow that, but we wouldn't be allowed to offset the future fee received against costs, we'd have to wait until the fee was received to count it as income.

 

[BillyShears]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Under Premier League third party rules the individual club owns the registration of the player (and must own the full registration of the player, you're talking about two individual clubs owning 62.5% and 37.5% of the player each. It wouldn't work.

Why would City only own 62% of his registration? They are purchasing him outright, then agreeing to sell him again outright after X number of years to NYCFC. The player stays in the CFG family, however his registration is owned by City first and then by NYCFC.

If Manchester City purchase a player for £80m on a five year deal, then the charge to the books under FFPR is £16m per annum plus salary. You can't lower the charge by sharing costs with another club in CFG. Firstly it was part of our FFP settlement that we wouldn't share costs with the other clubs in the CFG, secondly sharing the costs of a players employment with an individual or entity not of the club is a violation of the PL rules:

1. No Club may enter into an agreement with a Third Party whereby that Club makes or receives a payment to or from, assigns any rights to or incurs
any liability in relation to, that Third Party as a result of, or in connection with, the proposed or actual registration (whether permanent or temporary),
transfer of registration or employment by it of a Player, unless:
i. it is permitted under Regulation B below; or
ii. The Association has approved the arrangement in accordance with Regulation A.2 below.
2. Before registering a Player for a Club, The Association must be satisfied that there exist no agreements between the Club or the Player and a Third
Party under which a Third Party will own or continue to own any registration or economic rights or the like in the Player following registration. FA Third Party Ownership Regulations
2 of 6
Consequently, unless otherwise permitted in accordance with the requirements of Regulation B below, a Club must submit to The Association any
written contract and the details in writing of any oral contract or agreement that it proposes to enter into which involves a Third Party:
a. selling, granting, acquiring or otherwise transacting any rights whatsoever in relation to the registration of the Player, the transfer of
registration of the Player or the employment of the Player; and/or
b. making or receiving any payment whatsoever, either directly or indirectly, in relation to the registration of the Player, the transfer of
registration of the Player or the employment of the Player.

It wouldn't be approved. We could give another CFG club an option to purchase a player from us for a set fee on a future date, the rules allow that, but we wouldn't be allowed to offset the future fee received against costs, we'd have to wait until the fee was received to count it as income.

Ah okay, yeah looking at it like that it seems this isn't really an option. Was just a thought. Cheers for clarifying it for me.

 

[fbloke]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I really don't see the benefit of such shenanigans in any case.

If MCFC want him they buy him, if they then move him on to NYCFC then so be it.

Why have a complicated set of contractual obligations, T's and C's to achieve that?

 

[aguero93:20]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I really don't see the benefit of such shenanigans in any case.

If MCFC want him they buy him, if they then move him on to NYCFC then so be it.

Why have a complicated set of contractual obligations, T's and C's to achieve that?

Neither do I, we might possibly be able to lower a fee by insterting a 100% sell on clause into the original deal, that could get around the regulations (once) but the PR disaster it would cause just for the sake of knocking what, £5-6m in amortisation per year off for a club that will most likely have turnover in the high £400ms or low £500ms before the deal was fully amortised?

 

[bluechampion7891]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

there are other things to consider too:
1) what if the player decides he wants to play elsewhere? not impossible, there is a reason why transfers happens even if contracts stipulate otherwise (simplistically speaking)?
2) even if we are moving a fully city owned player to NYCFC, I dont see us getting any fee per say, b/c then there would be whinges, mourns and so on. the best thing I can see for us is that we'd have a highly paid players wages off our books which otherwise we might not have had . e.g Yaya earns 10M in 2016, we agree a fee with X italian club - it wont be more than 3-5 million. they agree to pay him 3 million a year and City would have to pay the rest, so we are still having him on books for 2-4 million. that would be wholly saved if we move him to NYCFC who'd pay him in full, even without a fee.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Wasn't sure should this go in the FFP and City thread or an old one about FIFA Corruption. I've posted on both. If this isn't allowed feel free to get rid of one.

In light of what's been going on in relation to FIFA being investigated at the moment and their lame attempts to deflect by filing a criminal investigation of their own. I saw one of the whistleblowers on the ITV news only last night.
Do any of you on here, that are well up on these things, think that regardless if FIFA and Blatter in particular, manage to ride this one out, that there will be a lot more revelations to come from descenting voices. The accusations made seemed very sinister, with the woman fearing for herself and her family.
I'm not sure this is going to go away soon.
Could this in turn, put the spotlight on Platini and UEFA, with possibly more people willing to blow the whistle on Cartel influence and the whole FFP circus.
I'm sure I read on here already about Platini possibly being implicated in the Qatari bid also, although I could be wrong.
Has this the potential to snowball and gather momentum.

 

[whp.blue]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Wasn't sure should this go in the FFP and City thread or an old one about FIFA Corruption. I've posted on both. If this isn't allowed feel free to get rid of one.

In light of what's been going on in relation to FIFA being investigated at the moment and their lame attempts to deflect by filing a criminal investigation of their own. I saw one of the whistleblowers on the ITV news only last night.
Do any of you on here, that are well up on these things, think that regardless if FIFA and Blatter in particular, manage to ride this one out, that there will be a lot more revelations to come from descenting voices. The accusations made seemed very sinister, with the woman fearing for herself and her family.
I'm not sure this is going to go away soon.
Could this in turn, put the spotlight on Platini and UEFA, with possibly more people willing to blow the whistle on Cartel influence and the whole FFP circus.
I'm sure I read on here already about Platini possibly being implicated in the Qatari bid also, although I could be wrong.
Has this the potential to snowball and gather momentum.

or die a dusty death in the Swiss legal system

 

[SilverFox2]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Wasn't sure should this go in the FFP and City thread or an old one about FIFA Corruption. I've posted on both. If this isn't allowed feel free to get rid of one.

In light of what's been going on in relation to FIFA being investigated at the moment and their lame attempts to deflect by filing a criminal investigation of their own. I saw one of the whistleblowers on the ITV news only last night.
Do any of you on here, that are well up on these things, think that regardless if FIFA and Blatter in particular, manage to ride this one out, that there will be a lot more revelations to come from descenting voices. The accusations made seemed very sinister, with the woman fearing for herself and her family.
I'm not sure this is going to go away soon.
Could this in turn, put the spotlight on Platini and UEFA, with possibly more people willing to blow the whistle on Cartel influence and the whole FFP circus.
I'm sure I read on here already about Platini possibly being implicated in the Qatari bid also, although I could be wrong.
Has this the potential to snowball and gather momentum.

or die a dusty death in the Swiss legal system

Correct.

Switzerland is not exactly famous for upholding legal decisions made elsewhere.

As the FT once suggested, the only way with FIFA is via its largest sponsors being made accountable for their continued support in a US public enquiry.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Wasn't sure should this go in the FFP and City thread or an old one about FIFA Corruption. I've posted on both. If this isn't allowed feel free to get rid of one.

In light of what's been going on in relation to FIFA being investigated at the moment and their lame attempts to deflect by filing a criminal investigation of their own. I saw one of the whistleblowers on the ITV news only last night.
Do any of you on here, that are well up on these things, think that regardless if FIFA and Blatter in particular, manage to ride this one out, that there will be a lot more revelations to come from descenting voices. The accusations made seemed very sinister, with the woman fearing for herself and her family.
I'm not sure this is going to go away soon.
Could this in turn, put the spotlight on Platini and UEFA, with possibly more people willing to blow the whistle on Cartel influence and the whole FFP circus.
I'm sure I read on here already about Platini possibly being implicated in the Qatari bid also, although I could be wrong.
Has this the potential to snowball and gather momentum.

or die a dusty death in the Swiss legal system

Correct.

Switzerland is not exactly famous for upholding legal decisions made elsewhere.

As the FT once suggested, the only way with FIFA is via its largest sponsors being made accountable for their continued support in a US public enquiry.

I was kind of affraid that, that would be the opinion.
It's depressing really when you think of it. We all love the game, but hate what the money men are making of it.
I watch my young lad play on a Sunday morning and it just seems a million miles away from all of this.