City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

[FanchesterCity]

A large behemoth club like United will be far more set in their ways. The marketing they do will be churning the handle in the same old ways they did last season, and the season before etc. The deals they do will be 'more of the same'.
A club like City, starting from a cleaner slate are more dynamic and much more 'lets try this, lets do that' mode of thinking. Vibrant and responsive as opposed to monolithic and slow to change.

A very good point. United are a bit like General Motors in the 1950s.

At the time GM's chairman stated "GM doesn't have bad years. GM has good years and better years."

GM had revolutionised the way massive (ha,ha) companies were structured and dominated the motor industry.

The GM way was the best way. I doubt GM had even a passing interest in what was happening in Japan at that time.

GM's rivals were Ford. Always had been, always would be, and it was inconceivable that this would change.
Chrysler were a minor irritation.

GM remained the number one for a long time but eventually had to be bailed out by the US government.

Substitute Liverpool for Ford, Arsenal for Chrysler and think of ourselves as Toyota or Nissan and you have the picture.

The only real difference is that "the changing of the guard" happens much faster in football.

Maybe so. I would just add that our marketing was more risk taking a few years ago with the Tevez "Welcome to Manchester" hoardings etc. this contrasts with the risk averse East Stand spelling out Together rather than Kippax at the end of last season.

We seem to have gone more textbook / MBA type approached over recent times.

Those are just single specific campaigns though, whereas I think the bigger picture shows we're being more creative too.
Regardless of what people think of the fanzone, or the cuisine, or Citizens etc, they are showing that we're willing to try new ideas. Nobody else (as far as I know) has tried to present multiple teams under one big brand like we are.
United haven't had to do much thinking, they've been creaming it in for years, we have HAD to work at creating the new City image and that's why I think we're ahead of the game now. Most other clubs seem to be wondering what the hell we are doing - because they've all been stuck in their own rut. That said, I'd give Arsenal a bit of credit for how they've branded them and their stadium well too. They've actually managed to sell this 'classy' notion quite well, but without trophies, I think they're hitting the buffers on how far they can take it.

 

[FanchesterCity]

Yes, their year end is end June and they annouce their results towards the back end of October. Ours is end of May, but we don't release the results until about December time for some reason. So it will be by around December before we know if we outgrew them this year.

It'll be more interesting to see their profit too. I assume Moyes will have been paid off handsomely, then next years results will have to cover the spending LvG's undertaken. Whilst the Adidas deal gives them a big boost, they'll have blown it all on incoming transfers, and worse still, there's not many there they can sell on for much. RvP's near end of life, and Rooney's stock is collapsing. The next two years stand to make very good reading.

and they have a lot of players whose contracts are up either this summer or next, so it will cost them money to replace them, though for the British lot they'll still get stupid fees for them if they want to sell them this summer.

Maybe, but I'm not sure people will be hoodwinked a second time about buying ex United players.
The first time around, when they flogged Butt, Neville, O'Shea and the like, people thought they were buying a little bit of their success in the process. None of them went on to do particularly well.
This time around, I don't think there will be much of a queue for their cast offs. Rooney and Carrick's about it, but they're past their best to put it mildly.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

It'll be more interesting to see their profit too. I assume Moyes will have been paid off handsomely, then next years results will have to cover the spending LvG's undertaken. Whilst the Adidas deal gives them a big boost, they'll have blown it all on incoming transfers, and worse still, there's not many there they can sell on for much. RvP's near end of life, and Rooney's stock is collapsing. The next two years stand to make very good reading.

and they have a lot of players whose contracts are up either this summer or next, so it will cost them money to replace them, though for the British lot they'll still get stupid fees for them if they want to sell them this summer.

Maybe, but I'm not sure people will be hoodwinked a second time about buying ex United players.
The first time around, when they flogged Butt, Neville, O'Shea and the like, people thought they were buying a little bit of their success in the process. None of them went on to do particularly well.
This time around, I don't think there will be much of a queue for their cast offs. Rooney and Carrick's about it, but they're past their best to put it mildly.

I don't see Jones going for less than £15m if sold, or Evans or Smalling for less than £10m if they were either.

 

[SilverFox2]

Not sure why anyone expects us to bear the costs of work carried out for NYCFC, Melbourne City and YF Marinos. We don't earn any income from those clubs so why should we pay their expenses?

Not sure that this will happen will it ?
I am not an accountant but the fact is that we as MCFC are part of a Holding Company called CFG like the clubs you mention.

Up to now we have been the recipient of massive funds via ADUG which invests so when the investment starts to make a profit this money needs to be protected from tax which is where the Holding Company is useful.

The UK based companies within the Holding Company may continue to need investment so our profits can use the CFG investment losses elsewhere to prevent UK taxation, ie we keep our gross profit or part of it rather than pay full taxation.

Not sure how it works for overseas investments but after all, the Sheik M.owns the profits from his investment so he decides what to do with it does he not ?

 

[fbloke]

On the face of it the figures for 2014 season are as follows:

United - revenues £433M, lots of debt to be serviced, profit £24M. Loads spent since and no CL. If no CL after 16/17 season Adidas deal reduces by 30%

City - revenues £347M and rising. Zero debt


To be honest we dont make much of this but United should well be scared stiff at how close we are getting after a standing start. If they dont qualify for CL this season the alarm bells and panic buttons will be deafening.

Dont forget that united now have a bigger wage bill and are having to pay more still to get not premium players than City have to get top players.

 

[Thaksinssoldier]

On the face of it the figures for 2014 season are as follows:

United - revenues £433M, lots of debt to be serviced, profit £24M. Loads spent since and no CL. If no CL after 16/17 season Adidas deal reduces by 30%

City - revenues £347M and rising. Zero debt


To be honest we dont make much of this but United should well be scared stiff at how close we are getting after a standing start. If they dont qualify for CL this season the alarm bells and panic buttons will be deafening.

Dont forget that united now have a bigger wage bill and are having to pay more still to get not premium players than City have to get top players.

They absolutely MUST be kept out of the top four this year. It'll cripple them.

 

[FanchesterCity]

Not sure why anyone expects us to bear the costs of work carried out for NYCFC, Melbourne City and YF Marinos. We don't earn any income from those clubs so why should we pay their expenses?

Not sure that this will happen will it ?
I am not an accountant but the fact is that we as MCFC are part of a Holding Company called CFG like the clubs you mention.

Up to now we have been the recipient of massive funds via ADUG which invests so when the investment starts to make a profit this money needs to be protected from tax which is where the Holding Company is useful.

The UK based companies within the Holding Company may continue to need investment so our profits can use the CFG investment losses elsewhere to prevent UK taxation, ie we keep our gross profit or part of it rather than pay full taxation.

Not sure how it works for overseas investments but after all, the Sheik M.owns the profits from his investment so he decides what to do with it does he not ?

On the face of it, of course he owns the profits, and can reinvest where he likes, but thanks to FFP, he can't do it in the most convenient way for him, he has to do it in the way UEFA stipulate.
It's not a big deal (I don't think), but it does mean City have to structure things with FFP in mind, so every little penny we spend on NYC needs to be billed to NYC and not us etc. Without FFP, it wouldn't matter, someone at City would just 'do the job', but now Mr Platini want's to see every bowel movement we make, we have to account for everything.

It's not different than any multinational having different cost centers across the business and charging each other for services rendered. Naysayers will say it's 'dodging' FPP, but in reality it's just arranging the business so that it's optimised for FFP or at least helps us fulfill FFP.

Every club is doing it. We just happen to be the ones in the spotlight.

As you've alluded to, it's the same thing with tax. If you're on the right side of the media they'll portray it as fantastic financial efficiency. If you're on the wrong side of them, they'll present it as tax avoidance which gives a negative overtone to it. Avoidance isn't evasion, but the public lap it all up either way.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

A very good point. United are a bit like General Motors in the 1950s.

At the time GM's chairman stated "GM doesn't have bad years. GM has good years and better years."

GM had revolutionised the way massive (ha,ha) companies were structured and dominated the motor industry.

The GM way was the best way. I doubt GM had even a passing interest in what was happening in Japan at that time.

GM's rivals were Ford. Always had been, always would be, and it was inconceivable that this would change.
Chrysler were a minor irritation.

GM remained the number one for a long time but eventually had to be bailed out by the US government.

Substitute Liverpool for Ford, Arsenal for Chrysler and think of ourselves as Toyota or Nissan and you have the picture.

The only real difference is that "the changing of the guard" happens much faster in football.

Maybe so. I would just add that our marketing was more risk taking a few years ago with the Tevez "Welcome to Manchester" hoardings etc. this contrasts with the risk averse East Stand spelling out Together rather than Kippax at the end of last season.

We seem to have gone more textbook / MBA type approached over recent times.

Those are just single specific campaigns though, whereas I think the bigger picture shows we're being more creative too.
Regardless of what people think of the fanzone, or the cuisine, or Citizens etc, they are showing that we're willing to try new ideas. Nobody else (as far as I know) has tried to present multiple teams under one big brand like we are.
United haven't had to do much thinking, they've been creaming it in for years, we have HAD to work at creating the new City image and that's why I think we're ahead of the game now. Most other clubs seem to be wondering what the hell we are doing - because they've all been stuck in their own rut. That said, I'd give Arsenal a bit of credit for how they've branded them and their stadium well too. They've actually managed to sell this 'classy' notion quite well, but without trophies, I think they're hitting the buffers on how far they can take it.

Fair points. As you know, the multi-teams playing under the CFG banner is 5 or so years old and was thought up by Gary Cook and Khakdoon. That said, I agree it is still innovative by today's standards.

Most of what we are doing is pretty text book but that is not a bad thing. We don't need to take many risks with so many potential commercial partners wanting to be friends with the Sheikh and Khakdoon.

I note your point about Cityzens And I certainly wouldn't be arguing if I was one of the 50 Cityzens going to AbunDhabi next week.

 

[Chippy_boy]

and they have a lot of players whose contracts are up either this summer or next, so it will cost them money to replace them, though for the British lot they'll still get stupid fees for them if they want to sell them this summer.

Maybe, but I'm not sure people will be hoodwinked a second time about buying ex United players.
The first time around, when they flogged Butt, Neville, O'Shea and the like, people thought they were buying a little bit of their success in the process. None of them went on to do particularly well.
This time around, I don't think there will be much of a queue for their cast offs. Rooney and Carrick's about it, but they're past their best to put it mildly.

I don't see Jones going for less than £15 if sold, or Evans or Smalling for less than £10 if they were either.

Edited for accuracy.

 

[Chippy_boy]

As you've alluded to, it's the same thing with tax. If you're on the right side of the media they'll portray it as fantastic financial efficiency. If you're on the wrong side of them, they'll present it as tax avoidance which gives a negative overtone to it. Avoidance isn't evasion, but the public lap it all up either way.

Case in point: "We were incorporated in the Cayman Islands on April 30, 2012 as an exempted company with limited liability under the Companies Law (2011 Revision) of the Cayman Islands".

Guess who?