fbloke said:FanchesterCity said:fbloke said:I never claim to be 'in the know' as I'm not. Never said it and never will.
I too have absolutely no idea who or what our targets are. It's pure speculation. But I think most of reckon we'll be due a marquee signing and we know the typical cost of one of those (70m+). We also know that one player won't be enough (not if we want to improve) - we're looking at 3 or 4 quality players right? It's then a matter of guessing just how good and expensive those players are likely to be.
I am guessing IF we got the marquee signing (circa 70m), then we might be looking at a 40m + a 30m + a 20m that's bringing us to 160m GROSS, then we offload players anywhere between 30-60m
It's pure speculation because we've no clue who is on our shopping or 'for sale' list, nor if it'll go to plan. Past history says we won't get everybody we want, we'll end up with a compromise (as is the case with most clubs).
You're a lot more optimistic than I am about us splashing the cash to the sum of 150-200m NET
I'm less 'optimistic' (not pessimistic) that it'll be 120-150m GROSS
We shouldn't fall out over it... it's just two views... either way, even with my more conservative estimate, it's a hell of a lot better than last summer (as long we use the money wisely).
I'm certainly not falling out with anyone over football.
And I dont think i've been looking forwards to a summer as much as this one ever. Not ony because it will mean this bloody awful season will be over ;-)
FanchesterCity said:richards30 said:FanchesterCity said:I too have absolutely no idea who or what our targets are. It's pure speculation. But I think most of reckon we'll be due a marquee signing and we know the typical cost of one of those (70m+). We also know that one player won't be enough (not if we want to improve) - we're looking at 3 or 4 quality players right? It's then a matter of guessing just how good and expensive those players are likely to be.
I am guessing IF we got the marquee signing (circa 70m), then we might be looking at a 40m + a 30m + a 20m that's bringing us to 160m GROSS, then we offload players anywhere between 30-60m
It's pure speculation because we've no clue who is on our shopping or 'for sale' list, nor if it'll go to plan. Past history says we won't get everybody we want, we'll end up with a compromise (as is the case with most clubs).
You're a lot more optimistic than I am about us splashing the cash to the sum of 150-200m NET
I'm less 'optimistic' (not pessimistic) that it'll be 120-150m GROSS
We shouldn't fall out over it... it's just two views... either way, even with my more conservative estimate, it's a hell of a lot better than last summer (as long we use the money wisely).
but you are adamant we wont spend big and argue that until the cows come home?!!! Are you sure you are actually a blue??
Show me where I've said we won't spend big?
Are you even reading?
I said I don't think we'll spend as big as fbloke estimates.
Would you say United spent big this summer? I would..... and my prediction is we'll be about the same. So that'll be erm... spending big right?
Am I sure I'm actually a blue? bloody hell. erm no.... I'm not sure at all. All this debate about who and what we might spend in the summer is making me doubt if I support City. Obviously, I need to say we'll spend 500m and I'll be a better City fan!
Honestly, I don't mind debating with people that can put forward their point of view, but I'm not going to get into stupid personal arguments. Argue the topic, not the person.
LoveCity said:Gary Neville believes we'll struggle to compete this summer because of FFP and "if any player has a choice between United, Chelsea, Arsenal and City, City will always be 4th" (tell that to Nasri and Jovetic).
Has anyone given these football experts an update or are we all wrong?
No they aren't. They're part of the overall remuneration package so, in the normal course of events, would be included in an FFP assessment.Damocles said:Bonuses are absolutely definitely exempt from FFP.
richards30 said:FanchesterCity said:richards30 said:but you are adamant we wont spend big and argue that until the cows come home?!!! Are you sure you are actually a blue??
Show me where I've said we won't spend big?
Are you even reading?
I said I don't think we'll spend as big as fbloke estimates.
Would you say United spent big this summer? I would..... and my prediction is we'll be about the same. So that'll be erm... spending big right?
Am I sure I'm actually a blue? bloody hell. erm no.... I'm not sure at all. All this debate about who and what we might spend in the summer is making me doubt if I support City. Obviously, I need to say we'll spend 500m and I'll be a better City fan!
Honestly, I don't mind debating with people that can put forward their point of view, but I'm not going to get into stupid personal arguments. Argue the topic, not the person.
Not a fan of doing this as it gets the usual shite responses but fuck it why not.......had a very good chat with brian marwood a few weeks ago regarding all things city. Despite him getting the shite for the transfer window after the first season i can promise everyone brian is absolutely besotted by city and the plans ahead. He didn't say numbers but just said it was going to be a huge summer for us this coming one and we were going to re-jig the squad big time. I asked about restrictions etc and was told in no uncertain terms if the clubs opinion we were good to go and would be making big changes. We will be announcing some big new sponsorship deals at the end of the season as well and he reckons the whole city football group is going to be huge! Fabulous fella and despite the city fans view of him is very highly respected and has a real buzz for what city are doing. Very rarely post these things but people like you just shoot down others who actually do know stuff. Hopefully Prestwich_Blue will remember some Pm's we exchanged when city were punished for the FFP fine etc and despite most city fans kicking off we never fought it there was actually board meetings where it was agreed that we would challenge it right up until the end! I think a deal for a year was done and that was the pinch that khaldhoon mentioned. As Prestwich_Blue will also confirm it was talked about at the highest level about forming a breakaway European competition where the prize money would dwarf the current champions league monies! We are not run by idiots and imo for FFP in uefa eyes to work they couldn't have the first team fined challenge it so a deal was done where we only got in essence a year restrictions.
Prestwich_Blue said:No they aren't. They're part of the overall remuneration package so, in the normal course of events, would be included in an FFP assessment.Damocles said:Bonuses are absolutely definitely exempt from FFP.
However we seem to have got some sort of agreement that, for the purpose of the salary cap sanction, any performance related bonuses won't be included. I assume that only relates to things like bonuses paysble to the whole team for winning the league or cups, rather than things like bonuses to individual players for goals scored or appearances.
stony said:richards30 said:FanchesterCity said:Show me where I've said we won't spend big?
Are you even reading?
I said I don't think we'll spend as big as fbloke estimates.
Would you say United spent big this summer? I would..... and my prediction is we'll be about the same. So that'll be erm... spending big right?
Am I sure I'm actually a blue? bloody hell. erm no.... I'm not sure at all. All this debate about who and what we might spend in the summer is making me doubt if I support City. Obviously, I need to say we'll spend 500m and I'll be a better City fan!
Honestly, I don't mind debating with people that can put forward their point of view, but I'm not going to get into stupid personal arguments. Argue the topic, not the person.
Not a fan of doing this as it gets the usual shite responses but fuck it why not.......had a very good chat with brian marwood a few weeks ago regarding all things city. Despite him getting the shite for the transfer window after the first season i can promise everyone brian is absolutely besotted by city and the plans ahead. He didn't say numbers but just said it was going to be a huge summer for us this coming one and we were going to re-jig the squad big time. I asked about restrictions etc and was told in no uncertain terms if the clubs opinion we were good to go and would be making big changes. We will be announcing some big new sponsorship deals at the end of the season as well and he reckons the whole city football group is going to be huge! Fabulous fella and despite the city fans view of him is very highly respected and has a real buzz for what city are doing. Very rarely post these things but people like you just shoot down others who actually do know stuff. Hopefully Prestwich_Blue will remember some Pm's we exchanged when city were punished for the FFP fine etc and despite most city fans kicking off we never fought it there was actually board meetings where it was agreed that we would challenge it right up until the end! I think a deal for a year was done and that was the pinch that khaldhoon mentioned. As Prestwich_Blue will also confirm it was talked about at the highest level about forming a breakaway European competition where the prize money would dwarf the current champions league monies! We are not run by idiots and imo for FFP in uefa eyes to work they couldn't have the first team fined challenge it so a deal was done where we only got in essence a year restrictions.
Cheers for that mate, very interesting.
FanchesterCity said:Damocles said:FanchesterCity said:From the UEFA sanction document:
Manchester City accepts that employee benefit expenses cannot be increased during the next two financial periods (2015 & 2016). If
Manchester City meets the annual break even requirements outlined above, this spending limit will be removed for the 2016 financial period.
God knows what's interpreted as 'employee benefit expenses' - bonuses included or not? (I thought they were as UEFA didn't want anybody paying £1.00 in wages, and £200K a week in bonuses as a very easy workaround).
I HATE this document, it's so damn ambiguous, and since I don't trust UEFA, I see ways in which they'll interpret things that work against us. It's not like they've not done it before is it?
Bonuses are absolutely definitely exempt from FFP.
Really?
What's this in EUFA's FFP regulations then?
1. Definitions for the elements of relevant expenses are as follows:
a) Expenses-Costofsales/materials
Includes cost of sales for all activities, such as catering, merchandise, medical care, kits and sports materials.
b) Expenses–Employeebenefitsexpenses
Includes all forms of consideration in exchange for services rendered during
the reporting period by employees, including directors, management and those charged with governance.
Employee benefits expenses covers all forms of consideration including, but not limited to, short term employee benefits (such as wages, salaries, social security contributions, profit sharing and bonuses), non-monetary benefits (such as medical care, housing, cars and free or subsidised goods or services), post-employment benefits (payable after completion of employment), other long-term employee benefits, termination benefits, and share-based payment transactions.
If bonuses were exempt, it would be an absolute breeze to shift offload almost all the wages, and pay 99% bonus instead.
Thankfully, if we're in the clear this time around, as expected, it won't matter (with regard to the current sanctions), but it'll still matter in general terms of the break even requirement (normal FFP crap)
richards30 said:FanchesterCity said:richards30 said:but you are adamant we wont spend big and argue that until the cows come home?!!! Are you sure you are actually a blue??
Show me where I've said we won't spend big?
Are you even reading?
I said I don't think we'll spend as big as fbloke estimates.
Would you say United spent big this summer? I would..... and my prediction is we'll be about the same. So that'll be erm... spending big right?
Am I sure I'm actually a blue? bloody hell. erm no.... I'm not sure at all. All this debate about who and what we might spend in the summer is making me doubt if I support City. Obviously, I need to say we'll spend 500m and I'll be a better City fan!
Honestly, I don't mind debating with people that can put forward their point of view, but I'm not going to get into stupid personal arguments. Argue the topic, not the person.
Not a fan of doing this as it gets the usual shite responses but fuck it why not.......had a very good chat with brian marwood a few weeks ago regarding all things city. Despite him getting the shite for the transfer window after the first season i can promise everyone brian is absolutely besotted by city and the plans ahead. He didn't say numbers but just said it was going to be a huge summer for us this coming one and we were going to re-jig the squad big time. I asked about restrictions etc and was told in no uncertain terms if the clubs opinion we were good to go and would be making big changes. We will be announcing some big new sponsorship deals at the end of the season as well and he reckons the whole city football group is going to be huge! Fabulous fella and despite the city fans view of him is very highly respected and has a real buzz for what city are doing. Very rarely post these things but people like you just shoot down others who actually do know stuff. Hopefully Prestwich_Blue will remember some Pm's we exchanged when city were punished for the FFP fine etc and despite most city fans kicking off we never fought it there was actually board meetings where it was agreed that we would challenge it right up until the end! I think a deal for a year was done and that was the pinch that khaldhoon mentioned. As Prestwich_Blue will also confirm it was talked about at the highest level about forming a breakaway European competition where the prize money would dwarf the current champions league monies! We are not run by idiots and imo for FFP in uefa eyes to work they couldn't have the first team fined challenge it so a deal was done where we only got in essence a year restrictions.