City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

[SilverFox2]

Italian football in general. It has a lot of social problems involving the ownership of many of their stadiums, the ticket prices/general relationship with fans and specifically the revenue split. Italian clubs are heavily dependent on TV revenue and their commercial revenues are behind many of the top clubs. Unfortunately they are also trying to compete on the same revenue landscape as the top clubs, so they have all of the costs with none of the income.

The top teams over there have lost money for many years but their owners have generally propped them up. As FFP came in and it disallowed this type of investment, it banned this practice but the problem is really that they needed propping up in the first place rather than that they were propped up.

This isn't an Italian only problem and if you ignore England, France, Spain and Germany for a minute then this exact problem is replicated in almost every league across the continent. There was a great report put out by UEFA in 2008 (before FFP was decided) showing the extent of the problem. There is a 99% competitive advantage between the top 10 spending clubs in a league and the next 10.

FFP was bastardised and warped into a perverted mess by agendas and politiking in UEFA but the root issue that clubs were both struggling to keep themselves afloat and the competitive advantage given to the biggest spending clubs really is a concerning issue

Thanks again D.

So UEFA were fully aware of the problem and its potential extent yet they deliberately skewed the rules to exaggerate its effect on new money clubs (say City and PSG) knowing full well this made others more vulnerable ?

If so, are they likely to be sympathetic to the problems of Italy generally given their indifference to other European Leagues ?

Will they be glad to rid themselves of the Italian problems you describe or will they be frightened that they will find a way to form a breakaway football organisation that may threaten their overall control of European football ?
I suppose it depends on how greedy the current very profitable clubs are.

As we know the attack on owner investment whilst choosing to ignore debt (in fact FFP, contrary to the general line tripped out, encourages clubs to add debt rather than get owners to write it off) was more political than financial.

What amazes me is how many supposedly clever men at top clubs coudnt see what many of us fans could and now they are stating to bleat about it.

As for Italian footy Dam' is right in what he says but its also a case of FFP coming along when the owners over there desperately wanted to stop spending on players as their stadiums were crumbling (post Italia 90 investments.) and local and national governments werent going to pay that bill again.

Lets also not forget that the noise made about 'state support' of footy clubs meant that it would be against FFP if stadiums were built/repaired/upgraded by local or national governments in the way that Spanish and Italian clubs have historically done.

Many thanks Fbloke for further adding to my knowledge, I feel little embarrassed that I have to rely on informed posts from others to glean info on this interesting subject.

 

[fbloke]

Thanks again D.

So UEFA were fully aware of the problem and its potential extent yet they deliberately skewed the rules to exaggerate its effect on new money clubs (say City and PSG) knowing full well this made others more vulnerable ?

If so, are they likely to be sympathetic to the problems of Italy generally given their indifference to other European Leagues ?

Will they be glad to rid themselves of the Italian problems you describe or will they be frightened that they will find a way to form a breakaway football organisation that may threaten their overall control of European football ?
I suppose it depends on how greedy the current very profitable clubs are.

As we know the attack on owner investment whilst choosing to ignore debt (in fact FFP, contrary to the general line tripped out, encourages clubs to add debt rather than get owners to write it off) was more political than financial.

What amazes me is how many supposedly clever men at top clubs coudnt see what many of us fans could and now they are stating to bleat about it.

As for Italian footy Dam' is right in what he says but its also a case of FFP coming along when the owners over there desperately wanted to stop spending on players as their stadiums were crumbling (post Italia 90 investments.) and local and national governments werent going to pay that bill again.

Lets also not forget that the noise made about 'state support' of footy clubs meant that it would be against FFP if stadiums were built/repaired/upgraded by local or national governments in the way that Spanish and Italian clubs have historically done.

Many thanks Fbloke for further adding to my knowledge, I feel little embarrassed that I have to rely on informed posts from others to glean info on this interesting subject.

I think some of us have more time on our hands than other ;-)

 

[Damocles]

Platini and UEFA carrot and stick.

Hull City hit by £145k UEFA fine for breaking Financial Fair Play rules

Fair Play (FFP) rules, UEFA have confirmed. The Tigers reached a settlement agreement with the European game’s governing body after failing to comply with “break-even” regulations. City have also been given until December 31, 2015 to show full compliance or risk a further 400,000 Euro (£290,000) punishment.<a class="postlink" href="http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Hull-...ail/story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Hull-...ail/story.html</a>

There you have it. Win a place in their invite only competition and your welcome is an instant fine and another possible fine if you don't comply with their FFP rules. And where does that fine go? It goes to the richest clubs who have passed FFP, even though they carry debt worth 100's millions.

#theUEFAfootballfamily

Wow, a £145,000 and £290,000 suspended fine.

That seems perfectly fair and consistent with our £20,000,000 now and £30,000,000 suspended fine. I'm sure a fine of 114 times what Hull got was perfectly in line with regulations.

The more this goes on the more corrupt you can see it becoming. We'll bury these fuckers in court one day

 

[jrb]

Apparently the debts are sustainable, so that makes everything OK. But it does help that Real Madrid are the biggest and most successful football club in Europe. A club Platini and UEFA dare not upset, which could jeopardise the CL. You can add United and Barcelona to that list.

Real Madrid's debt has grown to €602 million, according to figures released to club members.

[bigimg]http://images.performgroup.com/di/library/goal_uk/4e/64/florentino-perez-real-madrid_1xg4ynk6i8kxc15c6yfydvcqp2.jpg?t=-1506764683&w=620&h=430[/bigimg]

The amount that the European champions owe to banks, creditors the Spanish government and others has grown 11.3 per cent, from €541m, in the past year.
http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spain/2014/09/20/5119040/real-madrid-over-600-million-in-debt

 

[squirtyflower]

Apparently the debts are sustainable, so that makes everything OK. But it does help that Real Madrid are the biggest and most successful football club in Europe. A club Platini and UEFA dare not upset, which could jeopardise the CL. You can add United and Barcelona to that list.

Real Madrid's debt has grown to €602 million, according to figures released to club members.

[bigimg]http://images.performgroup.com/di/library/goal_uk/4e/64/florentino-perez-real-madrid_1xg4ynk6i8kxc15c6yfydvcqp2.jpg?t=-1506764683&w=620&h=430[/bigimg]

The amount that the European champions owe to banks, creditors the Spanish government and others has grown 11.3 per cent, from €541m, in the past year.
http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spain/2014/09/20/5119040/real-madrid-over-600-million-in-debt

Clearly it's not sustainable if it's growing faster than interest rates?

 

[richards30]

Apparently the debts are sustainable, so that makes everything OK. But it does help that Real Madrid are the biggest and most successful football club in Europe. A club Platini and UEFA dare not upset, which could jeopardise the CL. You can add United and Barcelona to that list.

Real Madrid's debt has grown to €602 million, according to figures released to club members.

[bigimg]http://images.performgroup.com/di/library/goal_uk/4e/64/florentino-perez-real-madrid_1xg4ynk6i8kxc15c6yfydvcqp2.jpg?t=-1506764683&w=620&h=430[/bigimg]

The amount that the European champions owe to banks, creditors the Spanish government and others has grown 11.3 per cent, from €541m, in the past year.
http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spain/2014/09/20/5119040/real-madrid-over-600-million-in-debt

Absolutely ridiculous that they get away with that! Yet we have no debt and still get fined?? Weren't real also under investigation for the money given to them by the Spanish government?

 

[Bill]

lol ffp is debt related . ok platini we believe you love.

 

[Bodicoteblue]

Apparently the debts are sustainable, so that makes everything OK. But it does help that Real Madrid are the biggest and most successful football club in Europe. A club Platini and UEFA dare not upset, which could jeopardise the CL. You can add United and Barcelona to that list.

Real Madrid's debt has grown to €602 million, according to figures released to club members.

[bigimg]http://images.performgroup.com/di/library/goal_uk/4e/64/florentino-perez-real-madrid_1xg4ynk6i8kxc15c6yfydvcqp2.jpg?t=-1506764683&w=620&h=430[/bigimg]

The amount that the European champions owe to banks, creditors the Spanish government and others has grown 11.3 per cent, from €541m, in the past year.
http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spain/2014/09/20/5119040/real-madrid-over-600-million-in-debt

Clearly it's not sustainable if it's growing faster than interest rates?

It's growing twice as fast as their income , and yet it's sustainable?
And they still carry on spending hundreds of millions on players .
It really is no surprise that the crooks at uefa switched their focus from debt to spending ,as that was the only way they could get at us, without hurting the old boys clubs.
Hopefully the whole edifice is going to collapse under the weight of its debt and fall squarely on platinis head.

 

[squirtyflower]

Apparently the debts are sustainable, so that makes everything OK. But it does help that Real Madrid are the biggest and most successful football club in Europe. A club Platini and UEFA dare not upset, which could jeopardise the CL. You can add United and Barcelona to that list.

Clearly it's not sustainable if it's growing faster than interest rates?

It's growing twice as fast as their income , and yet it's sustainable?
And they still carry on spending hundreds of millions on players .
It really is no surprise that the crooks at uefa switched their focus from debt to spending ,as that was the only way they could get at us, without hurting the old boys clubs.
Hopefully the whole edifice is going to collapse under the weight of its debt and fall squarely on platinis head.

It's disgusting that they are allowed to spend millions on players when they owe the government so much.
Could you see HMRC leering us off with our VAT to help us buy Pogba?

 

[GaudinoMotors]

Add to this the regional hatred of Madrid throughout Spain and them being propped up by the Government is even more inflammatory.
UEFA treat the old boys like a shop window where us unworthy clubs are supposed to peer in like urchins outside Hamleys.