City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

Re: City & FFP (continued)

BobKowalski said:
Whilst I am still of the opinion that a 'last minute deal with lots of mutual backslapping and bonhomie' will be the eventual outcome, if it does come to some sort of financial and legal battle it has echos of the FISA- FOCA war in F1 motor racing in the eighties which essentially was about smaller teams being disadvantaged by the major manufacturing teams in terms of revenue distribution and somewhat arbitrary application of the rules by FISA ie they always fucked the smaller guys over.

The ruling body FISA was led by a Frenchman Balestre at the time and the smaller teams under the FOCA banner by that upstanding pillar of the community Bernie Ecclestone who eventually won the day against the vested interests, although it was nip and tuck at the end. Admittedly City don't have anyone like Bernie on the team (which is kind of a shame because there are few better than Bernie when it comes to a dirty fight) but in terms of the largely English teams taking on the institutional bias of a European ruling body led by a pompous twat who also happens to be French it is remarkably similar.

And sadly Bernie is about to get 10 years for bribery and corruption.
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

Going off at a slightly oblique angle, could anybody give me a reasonable appraisal of how FFP would have prevented the car crash that is Leeds United?

The reasoning behind FFP came up in conversation the other day and Leeds were stated as a case in point and I realised I didn't really know enough to know either way. I know the general line is they spent the CL money before they had it and then didn't make CL (or something like that), but is that all there is to it? Many thanks for any info or insights.
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

more lazy than useless said:
Going off at a slightly oblique angle, could anybody give me a reasonable appraisal of how FFP would have prevented the car crash that is Leeds United?

The reasoning behind FFP came up in conversation the other day and Leeds were stated as a case in point and I realised I didn't really know enough to know either way. I know the general line is they spent the CL money before they had it and then didn't make CL (or something like that), but is that all there is to it? Many thanks for any info or insights.


I had a look at Leeds accounts a couple of years before they went bust. I think they only were making a small loss at the time, but that was with £18m champions league income. It was pretty obvious then that without the champions league income they would have been in trouble. So FFP I don't think would have stopped the Leeds situation, by the time FFP would have picked up a problem they were already gone.
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

FFP was drawn up by G14 clubs hoping to cut our throat before we became a problem taking their best players and winning stuff. Can't believe anyone else would see it another way as it's so obvious, they even made amendment's as late as 2012 to trip us up.
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

moomba said:
more lazy than useless said:
Going off at a slightly oblique angle, could anybody give me a reasonable appraisal of how FFP would have prevented the car crash that is Leeds United?

The reasoning behind FFP came up in conversation the other day and Leeds were stated as a case in point and I realised I didn't really know enough to know either way. I know the general line is they spent the CL money before they had it and then didn't make CL (or something like that), but is that all there is to it? Many thanks for any info or insights.


I had a look at Leeds accounts a couple of years before they went bust. I think they only were making a small loss at the time, but that was with £18m champions league income. It was pretty obvious then that without the champions league income they would have been in trouble. So FFP I don't think would have stopped the Leeds situation, by the time FFP would have picked up a problem they were already gone.

Had to read it a couple of times to get my head around it, but if I have it right what you are saying is that their spending was (more or less) within their means, but then their means changed significantly. There is nothing in FFP to guard against this, so pear shaped would be the order of the day anyway. Applying that to the current situation, I suppose its like saying United pass FFP because their debt is within their means, but if they miss out on top 4 again next season then the shit could hit the fan. Interesting.

I might re-visit the discussion I had been having when the Leeds question came up, it was with a United fan!
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

Brendan110_0 said:
FFP was drawn up by G14 clubs hoping to cut our throat before we became a problem taking their best players and winning stuff. Can't believe anyone else would see it another way as it's so obvious, they even made amendment's as late as 2012 to trip us up.

It's not that straightforward.

FFP originally started life as a plan to ensure clubs don't go bust. The original scheme was later hijacked by teams anxious to cement their own advantage.
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

Chris in London said:
Brendan110_0 said:
FFP was drawn up by G14 clubs hoping to cut our throat before we became a problem taking their best players and winning stuff. Can't believe anyone else would see it another way as it's so obvious, they even made amendment's as late as 2012 to trip us up.

It's not that straightforward.

FFP originally started life as a plan to ensure clubs don't go bust. The original scheme was later hijacked by teams anxious to cement their own advantage.

If FFP were about stopping clubs going bust, they would have simply imposed a limit on the amount of debt a club could carry. None of this messing about trying to decide if income is legitimate and no trying to stop people investing in their business. Wonder why they went for the model that restricts investment rather than one that would have limited debt?
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

Chris in London said:
Brendan110_0 said:
FFP was drawn up by G14 clubs hoping to cut our throat before we became a problem taking their best players and winning stuff. Can't believe anyone else would see it another way as it's so obvious, they even made amendment's as late as 2012 to trip us up.

It's not that straightforward.

FFP originally started life as a plan to ensure clubs don't go bust. The original scheme was later hijacked by teams anxious to cement their own advantage.

Something that rarely gets talked about now.

Makes you think whether they originally planned it that way just to get it through the door.
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

You can find out pretty much everything you need to know about historical football club finances here: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.footballeconomy.com/content/football-clubs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.footballeconomy.com/content/football-clubs</a>
And pretty much everything you need to know about historical transfers here:
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/premier-league/startseite/wettbewerb_GB1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/premi ... b_GB1.html</a>

Cross reference the two it makes interesting reading...
 

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