City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

[rickmcfc]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Dipped in and out of this thread since it started, whats become clear is that no-one has a clue about anything to do with how UEFA determine whether or not we have breached FFP, our deals are fair or what our punishments can be. A few weeks ago it was all 'we cant fail FFP' then it changed to 'it will be a slap on the wrists' and now its 'our lawyers will wipe the floor with them'. Lets face it, this is real and it is going to seriously affect any plans we had this summer and any plans we have going forward. We are not going to break even anytime soon despite what some people are imagining, as a result we are going to be easy targets for UEFA and the likes of Wenger in his quest to try and keep the status quo. It stinks of corruption and unfairness but its here and we need to face up to it.

Well said. Although it's wrong, we need need to accept what's going to happen. We simply will not win this.

 

[Centurions]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Actually there may be a correct piece in that daily fail article :-

City’s problem with UEFA has not been caused by their £350m Etihad sponsorship deal, as widely thought. They failed to meet UEFA’s requirements because the governing body have ruled that their recorded loss last season of £51.6m was artificially decreased.
Within that set of accounts, City said they had sold intellectual property rights to a third party for £24.5m and another set of intellectual property rights to a related company for £22.45m.

Those deals covered assets such as players’ image rights and scouting databases. Without those deals their real loss would have been almost £99m.
Crucially, UEFA rules allow clubs an exemption for players’ contracts signed before 2010 — but that only applies if you meet the rules. Given that City were deemed to have failed by such a large margin, they do not qualify for that exemption.
It seems City were relying on that exemption and the intellectual property rights deals to get them over the line. Now they cannot write off those contracts signed before 2010, even allowing for other exemptions that they can make for investing in youth football and their stadium, their breach of the rules over the past two years could be as much as £100m more than the £37m which UEFA permits.
That is why they face severe punishments.

That would explain this supposed £50 million fine. Not excuse it mind.

 

[Damocles]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Dipped in and out of this thread since it started, whats become clear is that no-one has a clue about anything to do with how UEFA determine whether or not we have breached FFP, our deals are fair or what our punishments can be. A few weeks ago it was all 'we cant fail FFP' then it changed to 'it will be a slap on the wrists' and now its 'our lawyers will wipe the floor with them'. Lets face it, this is real and it is going to seriously affect any plans we had this summer and any plans we have going forward. We are not going to break even anytime soon despite what some people are imagining, as a result we are going to be easy targets for UEFA and the likes of Wenger in his quest to try and keep the status quo. It stinks of corruption and unfairness but its here and we need to face up to it.

Well said. Although it's wrong, we need need to Dave up to what's going to happen. We simply will not win this.

The people who actually look into this thing say different.

People just don't seem to understand what's going on here. We haven't even lodged an appeal to UEFA yet

 

[bluebandits]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Mmmmmm, from The Guardian a while ago

Platini rejects any suggestion that Burrda hiring his son, in early 2012, means he is or was compromised. "My son is CEO of Burrda, it's a company of Qatar, they have many investments. He was a lawyer for PSG [until 2008], then he was with Lagardère [the French media company], then Burrda came to pick him, because he is good. It was totally not related to anything I have done. It has nothing to do with me, and there is no conflict."

PSG treated differently to City. Maybe nothing in it but he is French and there is/was a conflict of interest bcoz of his Son. Or maybe it's just me being a cynic.

 

[Dirty Harry]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

So, if UEFA are as corrupt as I believe we'll be banned for 1 year Champions league, and instead of 5th placed team taking our place they'll "award" it to the team with the highest UEFA coefficient (just happens to be Manure).

Fight them MCFC, they're a bunch of back stabbing money grabbing cunts who have single-handedly ruined every European division.

Is that true mate ? I already have reservations about Gill's involvement in all this but if it is, I'm almost certain, that somewhere down the line, this will be something we will bring to the table, there's a clear conflict of interest which nobody can deny.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Dipped in and out of this thread since it started, whats become clear is that no-one has a clue about anything to do with how UEFA determine whether or not we have breached FFP, our deals are fair or what our punishments can be. A few weeks ago it was all 'we cant fail FFP' then it changed to 'it will be a slap on the wrists' and now its 'our lawyers will wipe the floor with them'. Lets face it, this is real and it is going to seriously affect any plans we had this summer and any plans we have going forward. We are not going to break even anytime soon despite what some people are imagining, as a result we are going to be easy targets for UEFA and the likes of Wenger in his quest to try and keep the status quo. It stinks of corruption and unfairness but its here and we need to face up to it.

Well said. Although it's wrong, we need need to Dave up to what's going to happen. We simply will not win this.

The people who actually look into this thing say different.

People just don't seem to understand what's going on here. We haven't even lodged an appeal to UEFA yet

Dave thinks differently.

 

[steveb15]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

No way can we just tell them to shove the Champions League.
The competition is an enormous attraction to the top players and a large part of why they are here.

As fans we can show our disrespect for UEFA quite easily....
A) ignore the competition altogether
B) if you can't do A, some symbolic gesture eg all turn our backs on the UEFA hymn.

Personally I think A works for me.

 

[cibaman]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

I can honestly say I have no clue what is going on, nor what is going to happen. I was convinced UEFA would have to back down and it was all brinkmanship, but I just don't know now and this rumoured "announcement" after the game today really worries me.

But to all of those saying "we should sue the bastards", do bear in mind guys we might very well not win.

First off, layman's logic would lead you to believe our fine should be lower than PSG's and therefore should get the fine reduced if we go to CAS. But UEFA will doubtless have calculated our "sin" as being worse than PSG's after whatever adjustments they have made to our numbers. They must have some vaguely justifiable basis for our fine being higher, other than the fact that they don't like us. I can't see how we've failed at all personally, but if UEFA's audit firm has deemed certain transactions invalid and then our pre-2010 contracts cannot be excluded, then our losses for FFP purposes could be enormous. So the higher fine than PSG may be "justified" and could easily stick.

Second, if it goes all the way to the ECJ, we could lose there too. I don't know how many lawyers post on here, but I'll bet there are none who are specialists in European Law and how it applies to sport. Let alone how many are professors of European Law at Oxford University. Yet the man who has those qualifications says we "might" win in court, but we might not. It is no slam dunk. EUFA would not have introduced the rules without extensive legal consultation by similar experts who obviously believe it's watertight, or they would have drafted it differently. We may have a case, but the judges may deem that although the rules would normally contravene Employment or other laws, nevertheless they will allow them because in their view, they are justified in the context of the stated aims of FFP. There is precident for that decision being made in the past.

I am going to try to forget about this as best I can and concentrate on this afternoon. It's all too worrying and depressing at a time when we should be nothing but excited :-(

I cannot see why we would make an announcement today. Even if we reject UEFA's offered settlement, we're still only part way through their process. A public announcement might be seen as trying to put undue pressure on the panel that makes UEFA's final decision. It might be counter productive. The time for a public announcement would be before we go to CAS.

Most of the opinions that I've read on FFP suggest that its a balancing act between promoting financial stability whilst also not preventing competition. Not freezing out new owners. The fairness of the punishment regime is critical to that balancing act. Its been reported that Lerner will put Villa up for sale very soon. If City are hit with a hugely disproportionate punishment, how will that be perceived by someone with the finances to invest in that club? Will they decide that its not worth the effort?

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Based on watching Ferran's presentation, I don't think City have ANYTHING to fear from FFP going forward. Additionally, I don't think Mansour is concerned FOR CITY, but I DO think he will fight to the death to protect his name and reputation.

I would imagine City have chapter and verse from their interactions with UEFA, and obviously felt quite comfortable with their dealings. However, with changes in the rules midstream and the exception of certain revenues, plus the financial AND competitive leash being placed on a city going forward, which is designed to harm the on-going enterprise, it is hard to see how any European Court could come down against City. And, let's not forget, these are rules IMPOSED BY A CARTEL, not a government via legislation!

I'm not worried, and I don't think it will adversely impact ANY potential summer signings. We are already at the point where we only need two or three high quality squad additions. They will be amortized over the length of their contracts (4-5 yrs minimum), and if we win the league we get £93M!

We are going to be living in the high clover next season, both on and off the field.

So, let's concentrate on the trajectory of this club and ignore the speed bumps like Platini and the Cartel he represents!

 

[syedorf]

Re: City & FFP (continued)

If its the player rights and intellectual right I.e nycfc then wtf 25 mill for each the players image rights etc seem cheap to me as for the intellectual rights the same could you imagine how much a Chelsea or rags team would cost abroad ? No mention from the club at all ever about ffp so I'm sure they have a back up plan I trust them and most of all khaldoon not to get shafted by them