Doesn't really have much to do with us or FFP, although it was contentious at the time (UEFA racism-esque fine).kramer said:Don't know if this has been linked on here already But City's auditors were fined last year for breaches to audit independency rules http://m.accountingweb.co.uk/article/bdo-fined-icaew-disciplinary/538838
dctid said:Maldeika said:gh_mcfc said:maybe that will end up our intention. . To replace it with a fair and equitable competition. I think we can isolate Arsenel,, rags and bayern in the long run. We need the spanish big boys on ourside plus a few of the the bigger german, french and italain clubs, Surely they will chase the big bucks of a new comp.
A fair and equitable competition in which the winner is the one who has the richest owner? Not the team that has worked best over years and years in sports and management to get where it is...
I guess you all have another definition of fairness...
There is no fairness in sport - there never will be. The club in a small town usually has other possibilities than a bigger club. He just can help himself by being better than a similar club due to a better work. If you want fairness - share every money and put everybody on the same budget. But that for sure would not mean that Manchester City then would be one of the leaders...
The CL has distrorted leagues all over the world - qualification for the CL means huge monies for the clubs involved, additonal sponsorship etc etc effectively its a gravy chain that means clubs outside of the CL can never aspire too. If you really really want fairness then make the CL a knock out half the prize money and spend on grass root football or raise the money of the Europa and only the champions of any league can qualify - that will make things fair but i find it utterely fucking galling that LE Arse, Rags. Pool and Chelski whom were instigators of the CL in its current form whom effectively carved up the monies for themselves talk about organic growth.
Maybe finishing 4th would not been seen as a positive and clubs like Everton, SPuds etc can keep their best players and improve their squads and make football even more competative but realistically the historical sky 4 aint got the fucking balls to support that
Dribble said:Brilliant post.SteveinBeds said:I have no specialist knowledge of this field but I have been involved in the run up to a number of commercial law cases going to the English and European Courts. Invariably, the leading counsel advising the parties will tell them that if you consider that almost all of the facts are on your side, there is still a 15-20% chance of the case being decided against you.
In a case such as this, involving new rules, the application of accounting standards, regular meetings throughout a period to discuss the issue and complex transfer pricing aspects, the chance of a counter-intuitive decision must be higher than 20%.
All of the above applies to both parties, which is why, if I was advising either side, I would urge them to explore the extent to which any "middle ground" can be found to settle.
From City's perspective (especially all of us fans!) it will be hard to accept any penalty which is not derisory but there are, sadly, some prices worth paying even if our gut feel tells us not.
As a final point, all of the the above applies to the conniving UEFA top dogs (how polite and mild mannered I am being today!) which means that they will be being advised to find some middle ground.
The thing is though, if it does go to court, UEFA could be seen as the 'reasonable' party for having offered a prior settlement which we rejected. On the flip side, City could argue that any punishment was unfair, because by international accounting standards, we have complied and were left with no choice but to decline the offer and seek legal redress.
Platini is being blamed for all of this, but it shouldn't be forgotten that the Champions League only came about because of the threat from the G14 to break away from UEFA and form a European Super League. All said and done, Platini is just their Patsy.
I know a lot of us have said fuck UEFA, let's pull out of next year's competition and thus devalue it, but this is EXACTLY what the G14 want. The Champions League thrived just fine without us and I'm sure it will continue to without us even if we are the Premier League champions (which is still not a forgone conclusion.
Real, Barca, Bayern, ManUre, Milan, Juve, Inter, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea. These are the top drawer teams who fans tune in to watch. The Champions League can survive without 1 or 2 of them for a few seasons (Liverpool, Rags, Milan, Inter, Juve), but if they were all to up sticks en masse, say 'fuck you UEFA' and set up their threatened invitation only league, the Champions League would be reduced to being akin to the Europa League and we all know it.
It's the G14 who are the problem and it's they where we should be concentrating our efforts. What we need to do imo, is not to call for the scrapping of FFP, but for its re-formulation as something that is truly fair. We should call for unsustainable debtto be tackled and not legitimate equity investment. We should call for a better distribution of funds throughout football from the top to the bottom and we should call for clear fresh rules about football from FIFA that doesn't stop ambitious clubs and protect the elite thus forming a cartel.
We can only effect UEFA from inside the organisation and not outside it. I hope we choose to fight, but we need to bee tactical and tear the enemy apart from within and use every resource we have at our disposal to do so. Let us legally and ethically highlight what we know is wrong in football and what they're trying to do to us and in doing so hopefully the law will deal with the G14 qnd UEFA, because on our own with FFP breathing down our necks we don't stand a chance against the corrupt bastards because they are acting as Judge and Jury!
Bodicoteblue said:Is it not a possibility that a court could decide that while , technically according to uefa , we may have failed , it is obvious that we are seriously doing everything possible to comply , and that probably within the next year , we will, and that the punishment being mooted by Uefa is disproportionate and counter -productive given the stated aims of FFP?Tim of the Oak said:George Hannah said:they've got their 'best mates' Portugese puppets lined up heading the "Chamber" and the EU Competition Commision - both of the view that sport isn't an industry and so outside laws to stop unfair competition.
Good posts from Steve and others. I would just add that sometimes us in the UK think a decision is counter intuitive because the European Courts apply a different rationale. They may not just focus on the Directives, accounting standards and regulations etc. and look at what was the core of what the rules were meant to achieve. In a past working life, I was involved in European Working Time legislation and cases and the courts referred back to Treaties to inform their judgments.
It is possible that if this went to the European Courts the Judges could see arguments about the rules and accounting standards as being uncertain and look to see whether we have complied with what FIFA set out to achieve. In such circumstances, I think it would be very uncertain whether the Courts would rule for or against us.
abu13 said:The only thing i am 100% sure about is that when we do next play in the CL we can expect a shit load of red cards, disallowed goals, dodgy offside decisions generally shite decisions against us.
There are some things that Uefa have full control over and the referees are one of the key ones that they can fuck us over with.
Unlike this year you mean?Cobwebcat said:abu13 said:The only thing i am 100% sure about is that when we do next play in the CL we can expect a shit load of red cards, disallowed goals, dodgy offside decisions generally shite decisions against us.
There are some things that Uefa have full control over and the referees are one of the key ones that they can fuck us over with.
Refs are FIFA
That's a relief then cause there is no hint of corruption there!Cobwebcat said:abu13 said:The only thing i am 100% sure about is that when we do next play in the CL we can expect a shit load of red cards, disallowed goals, dodgy offside decisions generally shite decisions against us.
There are some things that Uefa have full control over and the referees are one of the key ones that they can fuck us over with.
Refs are FIFA
Sorry Abu but are you saying they'll treat us exactly the same next year as they did the last 3 years?abu13 said:The only thing i am 100% sure about is that when we do next play in the CL we can expect a shit load of red cards, disallowed goals, dodgy offside decisions generally shite decisions against us.
There are some things that Uefa have full control over and the referees are one of the key ones that they can fuck us over with.