mrtwiceaseason
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 9 Oct 2011
- Messages
- 7,933
For what it's worth isn't Gary cook at a loose end now as he was released by the wrestling admin before Xmas ?
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CITY: SHOWSEC, Atmosphere, & Blatant Bullying.
- Thread starter Mancityfans.net'er
- Start date
manctheknife
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 28 Aug 2007
- Messages
- 1,993
Surely the term in this instance is ' tagged out'?For what it's worth isn't Gary cook at a loose end now as he was released by the wrestling admin before Xmas ?
Why Always Ste
Well-Known Member
He was released by UFC in October.For what it's worth isn't Gary cook at a loose end now as he was released by the wrestling admin before Xmas ?
Since WME/IMG bought UFC they've laid many people off.
peoffrey
Well-Known Member
Has nobody got their phone out and recorded some of this obscene behaviour? The one incident that will remain in everyones mind is the East Stand v Villa because it was videoed. The fan in question posted on here.
Lots of shares and retweets will send our situation viral in no time. If they don't take action then they never will do.
Lots of shares and retweets will send our situation viral in no time. If they don't take action then they never will do.
The first few pages of this thread were full of people saying 'them's the rules' with regard to standing.
The law as it stands bows to the regulations of clubs in terms of standing. It is the law for clubs to provide all-seater stadia; it is not the law for every supporter in a stadium to be sat down. As we have seen with the south stand, 111/110 and to a similar yet lesser extent 109, there is a degree of leniency that exists. That is down to the club, not any external authority. Safety Advisory Groups exist with the power to reduce allocations and things of the like, but I cannot to my mind think of any case they have exercised that right at the Etihad in the 13 years we've been there.
I moved to block 314 when the extension was opened for cost reasons, and I'm sad to say the same showsec behaviour has continued up there. I think I speak for a significant number of those who moved to SSL3 in that while I moved because of the price of my season ticket, I remained hopeful that an atmosphere could be generated up there; mostly because I thought there'd be likeminded people up there. And there are; I am a seat from the segregation, and I stand by away fans standing for 90 minutes whenever a team takes the full allocation, or for whatever reason decides to take the third tier allocation over the first two tiers. The same situation exists as does in 109; a quite sizeable proportion of the block is standing, and has done since the stand opened. But this year, Showsec has started coming round trying to sit people down. And on more than one occasion has ejected people for refusing to comply. It's now got to the point where whenever you see yellow jackets coming up the aisle, you can be guaranteed of a 'stand up if you love City' chant.
There is an innate hypocrisy to this whole idea. You see the manager on the touchline, the players on the pitch trying to get the fans going. You can't blame Pep, he's come here straight from Germany where fans aren't treated like criminals, where they have safe standing and a decent atmosphere wherever you go. Yet they are all blissfully unaware that the main barrier to us having a decent atmosphere at home, is the club itself. Whether it be through heavy handed stewarding or through the gradual erosion of the 'normal' match day support through increased corporate allocations, general pricing out or heavy handed stewarding, I can't say this is the 'match day experience' (to borrow the club's own terminology) even I as a 24 year old grew up with. As a kid I relished the rawness of Maine Road and its atmosphere, and it's pretty clear that through the club's own actions it has destroyed the culture of our support - I think intentionally. There's no money to be made there, after all.
The law as it stands bows to the regulations of clubs in terms of standing. It is the law for clubs to provide all-seater stadia; it is not the law for every supporter in a stadium to be sat down. As we have seen with the south stand, 111/110 and to a similar yet lesser extent 109, there is a degree of leniency that exists. That is down to the club, not any external authority. Safety Advisory Groups exist with the power to reduce allocations and things of the like, but I cannot to my mind think of any case they have exercised that right at the Etihad in the 13 years we've been there.
I moved to block 314 when the extension was opened for cost reasons, and I'm sad to say the same showsec behaviour has continued up there. I think I speak for a significant number of those who moved to SSL3 in that while I moved because of the price of my season ticket, I remained hopeful that an atmosphere could be generated up there; mostly because I thought there'd be likeminded people up there. And there are; I am a seat from the segregation, and I stand by away fans standing for 90 minutes whenever a team takes the full allocation, or for whatever reason decides to take the third tier allocation over the first two tiers. The same situation exists as does in 109; a quite sizeable proportion of the block is standing, and has done since the stand opened. But this year, Showsec has started coming round trying to sit people down. And on more than one occasion has ejected people for refusing to comply. It's now got to the point where whenever you see yellow jackets coming up the aisle, you can be guaranteed of a 'stand up if you love City' chant.
There is an innate hypocrisy to this whole idea. You see the manager on the touchline, the players on the pitch trying to get the fans going. You can't blame Pep, he's come here straight from Germany where fans aren't treated like criminals, where they have safe standing and a decent atmosphere wherever you go. Yet they are all blissfully unaware that the main barrier to us having a decent atmosphere at home, is the club itself. Whether it be through heavy handed stewarding or through the gradual erosion of the 'normal' match day support through increased corporate allocations, general pricing out or heavy handed stewarding, I can't say this is the 'match day experience' (to borrow the club's own terminology) even I as a 24 year old grew up with. As a kid I relished the rawness of Maine Road and its atmosphere, and it's pretty clear that through the club's own actions it has destroyed the culture of our support - I think intentionally. There's no money to be made there, after all.
The first few pages of this thread were full of people saying 'them's the rules' with regard to standing.
The law as it stands bows to the regulations of clubs in terms of standing. It is the law for clubs to provide all-seater stadia; it is not the law for every supporter in a stadium to be sat down. As we have seen with the south stand, 111/110 and to a similar yet lesser extent 109, there is a degree of leniency that exists. That is down to the club, not any external authority. Safety Advisory Groups exist with the power to reduce allocations and things of the like, but I cannot to my mind think of any case they have exercised that right at the Etihad in the 13 years we've been there.
I moved to block 314 when the extension was opened for cost reasons, and I'm sad to say the same showsec behaviour has continued up there. I think I speak for a significant number of those who moved to SSL3 in that while I moved because of the price of my season ticket, I remained hopeful that an atmosphere could be generated up there; mostly because I thought there'd be likeminded people up there. And there are; I am a seat from the segregation, and I stand by away fans standing for 90 minutes whenever a team takes the full allocation, or for whatever reason decides to take the third tier allocation over the first two tiers. The same situation exists as does in 109; a quite sizeable proportion of the block is standing, and has done since the stand opened. But this year, Showsec has started coming round trying to sit people down. And on more than one occasion has ejected people for refusing to comply. It's now got to the point where whenever you see yellow jackets coming up the aisle, you can be guaranteed of a 'stand up if you love City' chant.
There is an innate hypocrisy to this whole idea. You see the manager on the touchline, the players on the pitch trying to get the fans going. You can't blame Pep, he's come here straight from Germany where fans aren't treated like criminals, where they have safe standing and a decent atmosphere wherever you go. Yet they are all blissfully unaware that the main barrier to us having a decent atmosphere at home, is the club itself. Whether it be through heavy handed stewarding or through the gradual erosion of the 'normal' match day support through increased corporate allocations, general pricing out or heavy handed stewarding, I can't say this is the 'match day experience' (to borrow the club's own terminology) even I as a 24 year old grew up with. As a kid I relished the rawness of Maine Road and its atmosphere, and it's pretty clear that through the club's own actions it has destroyed the culture of our support - I think intentionally. There's no money to be made there, after all.
THIS ALL DAY LONG ^^^^^^^^^^^ Although I`m more than twice your age I agree with every word.
And agreed hereTHIS ALL DAY LONG ^^^^^^^^^^^ Although I`m more than twice your age I agree with every word.
The club are shitting on their own core support...they are too stupid to realise that 'matchday experience' is about atmosphere as well as play on the pitch (and, of course, both are related.....ripbthe heart out of the support and the atmos suffers...the atoms suffers and the team lack the 'home cauldron' which is part of the whole 'home advantage' thing and this could affect results, which could then , in turn affect club revenues.. oh the fookin irony..
Bring back standing and stop hiding behind the morons that pass themselves off as 'trained' security staff...
Get a fookin grip, City board
prestonibbo_mcfc
Well-Known Member
And agreed here
The club are shitting on their own core support...they are too stupid to realise that 'matchday experience' is about atmosphere as well as play on the pitch (and, of course, both are related.....ripbthe heart out of the support and the atmos suffers...the atoms suffers and the team lack the 'home cauldron' which is part of the whole 'home advantage' thing and this could affect results, which could then , in turn affect club revenues.. oh the fookin irony..
Bring back standing and stop hiding behind the morons that pass themselves off as 'trained' security staff...
Get a fookin grip, City board
Maybe this should be explained to Pep, when he's trying to gee the crowd up.
The first few pages of this thread were full of people saying 'them's the rules' with regard to standing.
The law as it stands bows to the regulations of clubs in terms of standing. It is the law for clubs to provide all-seater stadia; it is not the law for every supporter in a stadium to be sat down. As we have seen with the south stand, 111/110 and to a similar yet lesser extent 109, there is a degree of leniency that exists. That is down to the club, not any external authority. Safety Advisory Groups exist with the power to reduce allocations and things of the like, but I cannot to my mind think of any case they have exercised that right at the Etihad in the 13 years we've been there.
I moved to block 314 when the extension was opened for cost reasons, and I'm sad to say the same showsec behaviour has continued up there. I think I speak for a significant number of those who moved to SSL3 in that while I moved because of the price of my season ticket, I remained hopeful that an atmosphere could be generated up there; mostly because I thought there'd be likeminded people up there. And there are; I am a seat from the segregation, and I stand by away fans standing for 90 minutes whenever a team takes the full allocation, or for whatever reason decides to take the third tier allocation over the first two tiers. The same situation exists as does in 109; a quite sizeable proportion of the block is standing, and has done since the stand opened. But this year, Showsec has started coming round trying to sit people down. And on more than one occasion has ejected people for refusing to comply. It's now got to the point where whenever you see yellow jackets coming up the aisle, you can be guaranteed of a 'stand up if you love City' chant.
There is an innate hypocrisy to this whole idea. You see the manager on the touchline, the players on the pitch trying to get the fans going. You can't blame Pep, he's come here straight from Germany where fans aren't treated like criminals, where they have safe standing and a decent atmosphere wherever you go. Yet they are all blissfully unaware that the main barrier to us having a decent atmosphere at home, is the club itself. Whether it be through heavy handed stewarding or through the gradual erosion of the 'normal' match day support through increased corporate allocations, general pricing out or heavy handed stewarding, I can't say this is the 'match day experience' (to borrow the club's own terminology) even I as a 24 year old grew up with. As a kid I relished the rawness of Maine Road and its atmosphere, and it's pretty clear that through the club's own actions it has destroyed the culture of our support - I think intentionally. There's no money to be made there, after all.
The stupidity of the situation is that the club have the resources and the facilities to satisfy the majority of fans regardless of the type of 'match day experience' they want. It may also require a bit of flexibility from us but getting like-minded fans seated, standing, singing or even eating canapés together shouldn't be too difficult if the desire to do it is there.
I don't think it's necessarily something that needs to be brought up with him, rather the club needs to sort out itself. It needs to sort out the massive number of fuckups it's madeMaybe this should be explained to Pep, when he's trying to gee the crowd up.
I also think our own fans are a big part of the problem; over the last few years the matchgoing support has gentrified quite considerably, to the point you get people in sections of our own ground staring disapprovingly and tutting at someone who at least tries to get behind the team. I don't expect every part will sing etc but going to the match has over-sanitised to the point where in some places it's basically impossible
In addition to that, you have the problem of the family stand. The move to turn the entire north stand into a family stand has been a catastrophic failure, evidenced by the empty seats (despite tickets having been bought). Before this, on its day, the north stand was capable of getting behind the team. Now though? No chance, save for the (very rare) chant of 'come on city'.
Pricing arrangements, too. As I said before a lot moved to south L3 for the cheap tickets, myself included. This has had the effect of splitting our singers even more than before, to the point where there isn't the traction to get songs going anymore. South L1 needs to be priced similarly to upstairs to get this back.
Now you have the tunnel debacle and that's even more evidence of the club shitting on its fans. Sadly I can't see it stopping, and it will get to the point where a lot of people, including me, are so disillusioned with going to the match that we stop going entirely. That point is, I fear, not far off.
r.soleofsalford
Well-Known Member
As with every complaint, we need to get to the man who can change attitudes at the club towards the fans. We need to get a small select group of supporters together to air our view. We need to approach ex players like Mike Summerbee, Paul Power, Paul Lake and the like and ask them to speak to Khaldoon, maybe even these fan on our behalf could meet with Khaldoon himself and air our grievances.
Eccles Blue
Well-Known Member
As with every complaint, we need to get to the man who can change attitudes at the club towards the fans. We need to get a small select group of supporters together to air our view. We need to approach ex players like Mike Summerbee, Paul Power, Paul Lake and the like and ask them to speak to Khaldoon, maybe even these fan on our behalf could meet with Khaldoon himself and air our grievances.
I thought that was what the OSC was there for?
Prestwich_Blue
Well-Known Member
We already have a small group of fans. It's called Points of Blue and it used to meet club officials regularly until Soriano came along and stopped it. We'll be meeting on Monday (without the club) and will be sending the minutes of the meeting to them, to which they might or might not reply. The annoying thing is that all our top six rivals have formal, regular meetings with representative fan groups, even the rags. They all see the benefit of talking to their fans yet our club doesn't.As with every complaint, we need to get to the man who can change attitudes at the club towards the fans. We need to get a small select group of supporters together to air our view.
We could usefully talk about things like:
- Atmosphere
- Standing
- Stewarding
- Transport
- Ticketing
Prestwich_Blue
Well-Known Member
With the greatest respect to the OSC & Kevin Parker (who I've got a lot of time for) they're never going to confront the club. I 'm not an OSC member so don't really know what dialogue they have with the club but I believe there have been instances where they have got things done. But their whole rationale is not to get involved in club politics, hence why they wouldn't take sides in the Swales Out years. My view is that if you think your club isn't being run well or is working against fans rather than with them, you have to take a stand but they have their view and I accept that. So the OSC is highly unlikely to ever put itself at odds with the club over a point of principle.I thought that was what the OSC was there for?
Plus they get their ticket allocations which could be seen as compromising their independence.
Why Always Ste
Well-Known Member
Points of Blue meetings have started again. I had attended one but haven't been to them since due to work commitments but I'm certain Stephen Parish (who organises the meetings) has direct contact with the club and sends concerns raised in the meetings to the club.As with every complaint, we need to get to the man who can change attitudes at the club towards the fans. We need to get a small select group of supporters together to air our view. We need to approach ex players like Mike Summerbee, Paul Power, Paul Lake and the like and ask them to speak to Khaldoon, maybe even these fan on our behalf could meet with Khaldoon himself and air our grievances.
The next meeting is Monday 16th January, 6.30 to 8 pm at the Lass o Gowrie, Charles Street, upstairs room or in the snug.
One poster above states that it "isn't law for all fans to remain seated" just to be provided with an actual seat in the stadium so my question for City and Showsec (if they approach me) is:
Why imply that I have to sit in my seat for, when it isn't breaking any laws in me standing?
I've seen showsec and been asked myself when I've stood in Block 108 ES to sit down... And Showsec have said I "Have to sit" and implied that there will be consequences if I don't.
What I don't understand is how can they get away with this and actually eject someone (with Police support)
When no actual law is being broken.
If it is law that I must remain seated at all times inside a stadium then fair enough.
gingerprince
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 5 Oct 2007
- Messages
- 1,361
Whenever you purchase a ticket it binds you to certain club terms and conditions
Be that a general or season ticket. Those terms and conditions will be extensive so
By the purchase of that ticket you commit to satisfying or obeying those terms.......
Showsec will be instructed to enforce those terms and conditions, some of those
club conditions will be legal obligations and some just club ticket obligations. Police,
If they can be bothered, enforce any illegal activity and I presume "assist" showsec in
enforcing club regulations if they believe a breach of the peace or other illegal activity
Is likely when showsec attempt to enforce a club regulation within terms & conditions.
So if it's a term or condition of the ticket that you obey all stewards and you don't, then
that's the opportunity for the club to enforce it and or eject and or later ban you, either
temporarily Or permanently [for repeated actions].....!
Be that a general or season ticket. Those terms and conditions will be extensive so
By the purchase of that ticket you commit to satisfying or obeying those terms.......
Showsec will be instructed to enforce those terms and conditions, some of those
club conditions will be legal obligations and some just club ticket obligations. Police,
If they can be bothered, enforce any illegal activity and I presume "assist" showsec in
enforcing club regulations if they believe a breach of the peace or other illegal activity
Is likely when showsec attempt to enforce a club regulation within terms & conditions.
So if it's a term or condition of the ticket that you obey all stewards and you don't, then
that's the opportunity for the club to enforce it and or eject and or later ban you, either
temporarily Or permanently [for repeated actions].....!
Points of Blue meetings have started again. I had attended one but haven't been to them since due to work commitments but I'm certain Stephen Parish (who organises the meetings) has direct contact with the club and sends concerns raised in the meetings to the club.
The next meeting is Monday 16th January, 6.30 to 8 pm at the Lass o Gowrie, Charles Street, upstairs room or in the snug.
One poster above states that it "isn't law for all fans to remain seated" just to be provided with an actual seat in the stadium so my question for City and Showsec (if they approach me) is:
Why imply that I have to sit in my seat for, when it isn't breaking any laws in me standing?
I've seen showsec and been asked myself when I've stood in Block 108 ES to sit down... And Showsec have said I "Have to sit" and implied that there will be consequences if I don't.
What I don't understand is how can they get away with this and actually eject someone (with Police support)
When no actual law is being broken.
If it is law that I must remain seated at all times inside a stadium then fair enough.
Even if it isnt law, whatever the club says goes. If its part of the clubs rules then you have to follow them, no matter how stupid they may be.
Whenever you purchase a ticket it binds you to certain club terms and conditions
Be that a general or season ticket. Those terms and conditions will be extensive so
By the purchase of that ticket you commit to satisfying or obeying those terms.......
Showsec will be instructed to enforce those terms and conditions, some of those
club conditions will be legal obligations and some just club ticket obligations. Police,
If they can be bothered, enforce any illegal activity and I presume "assist" showsec in
enforcing club regulations if they believe a breach of the peace or other illegal activity
Is likely when showsec attempt to enforce a club regulation within terms & conditions.
So if it's a term or condition of the ticket that you obey all stewards and you don't, then
that's the opportunity for the club to enforce it and or eject and or later ban you, either
temporarily Or permanently [for repeated actions].....!
That's all good and well, but the Club and Showsec are discriminating against individuals. The are targeting and picking on certain fans for standing, while all around them other fans are standing and aren't being targeted.
They can't drag a person out, take their details, take the season ticket, and ban them for x amount of games because they were standing, yet ignore other fans for doing exactly the same thing. Wait a minute, they do.
I'm surprised this hasn't been challanged in a court of law yet. Their actions wouldn't stand up. It's discrimination against that one individual.
There are laws to protect people, be it in the workplace, in public, etc, against harrashment, victimisation, bullying, etc.
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/what-victimisation
r.soleofsalford
Well-Known Member
I thought that was what the OSC was there for?
paper tiger we need to bypass the arseholes and get to the top mans main man
lancs blue
Well-Known Member
So when there's a riot inside or outside a stadium the police should either arrest everybody involved or arrest nobody?That's all good and well, but the Club and Showsec are discriminating against individuals. The are targeting and picking on certain fans for standing, while all around them other fans are standing and aren't being targeted.
They can't drag a person out, take their details, take the season ticket, and ban them for x amount of games because they were standing, yet ignore other fans for doing exactly the same thing. Wait a minute, they do.
I'm surprised this hasn't been challanged in a court of law yet. Their actions wouldn't stand up. It's discrimination against that one individual.
There are laws to protect people, be it in the workplace, in public, etc, against harrashment, victimisation, bullying, etc.
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/what-victimisation