City v Everton post match

[schfc6]

Whilst you make some good points (and I don't mean that facetiously) and I, like thousands of others, am aware of our need for new full backs, I stick by my point that I expect Pep to work on crossing as a key area. I repeat that he specifically referred to winning second balls on crosses after the Everton game and it was something he focused on at Bayern so you can talk about Barca and their full backs but Bayern was where he used wingers and we have wingers.

I also think Nolito, Sterling, Sane and Jesus (G), when he arrives, will be expected to contribute goals and come into the box from their wing when the ball is likely to be crossed from the other side. Never mind, natural instinct, the coach is there to develop players and get them to do things regardless of whether or not it is their natural inclination. Whether it natural or learned, Nolito obviously has the knack. And you can see how hard Sterling is working on his positional play in terms of which channel to be in so I am sure he will continue to do likewise on getting into the box.

The lack of an obvious aerial threat upfront should not preclude us crossing the ball, even if it means hard low crosses; although Aguero is actually a danger with his head and I reckon that Nolito chap could nod one in;-) Just for good measure, I'll reiterate that Pep works on his teams snapping up the second ball in the box. That does mean getting more bodies in the box with greater regularity and that is something the coach will have to work on with the players. There's no good reason why Silva and KDB should not get in the box looking for those second (or first balls). I'm sure one of the things Pep is looking for is to get his whole team higher up the pitch for more of the game.

I don't disagree at all. I'm sure Pep will work on crossing and more of a goal threat from other players. But I think he'll also realise we don't have the same players as Bayern.

Aguero is decent in the air, but he's no Lewondowski.
Muller is also good in the air and Vidal has an excellent record of goals from midfield.

I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't work on crossing, and the second ball is certainly something to work on.

It will be much harder in the Prem. Defenders are more physical and many teams are reliant on their defensive discipline. Germany all teams will try and play. Arguably technically better teams but all but a few PL sides are stuffed with international players.

We will no doubt be work img on crosses but against parked buses like Saturday, for my money it will only yield 2 or 3 clear cut chances. Saturday we scored from a cross and Iheanacho had a very good chance too.

I'm not for oncbsecond suggesting you're like this but many fans expect us to score from every attack, complete every cross. It will never be possible.
As you say, if we improve, that can only help, especially the second ball.
But I doubt against the better bus parked sides we'd create much more than we did Saturday. Especially at 0-0.

I personally think we were very unlucky Saturday and we were arguably as good as we've been all season.
Frustrations will creep in after games like Saturday.

Some fans like you and I will chat about the good and the bad of the game. Sadly, as we've seen, some fans will just look to moan and criticise.

Honestly some of the people sat round me shout and scream the most ludicrous bollocks I've ever heard.

 

[schfc6]

can't speak for other comments, but mine isn't influenced by any media leanings. Frankly, it couldn't be seeing as I'm not in England to read the media clippings.

I simply pointed out what I saw. Funny enough, a lot of those who's comments have been mostly positive also point out the very Sam issues I have. We just reached different conclusion. OB1 and Schfc6 both strongly disagree with my conclusion yet point out the very same facts. A lacking movement in the box ( or as I put it, around the final 3rd). Schfc6 purports this has some to do with our weaknesses at full back, Ob1 suggests, I think, it's not in the nature of some of our players, specifically Silva, Dihno, Gundogan to naturally take these dangerous positions or make these dangerous runs. These points are in line with my claims and conclusion that we didn't play well.

That Everton backed off and allowed us space on the in defense and the center of the park, also invariably reduces the amount of praise I ascribe to our domination in those parts of the field.

Thus, my 'negative conclusion' if it can be termed that, comes from adding up the following: We were good where Everton did not compete, and often unable to penetrate in areas in which they did. That plus flunking not 1 but 2 penalties leaves me hard pressed to conclude that was a good game.

We were dominant possession wise, but good doesn't seem to fit for me. I could be wrong

Had we scored the two penalties and beat a very good, well managed and determined Everton side 3-1. Would we all of a sudden played well?
Had we stuck 3 passed a very solid parked bus, woukd we still have been poor in the final third?

 

[Father Paul]

Not in a position to argue with you in relation to the instances you note so I will accept that you observed what you did fro where ever it was you watched the match. But I stick by my general comments that we played very well and while we could have been even better I would not agree that we were sluggish in the final third. This was a very fine Everton defensive performance full stop.

 

[Deleted member 13905]

All these final balls are going to start coming off, and we are going to issue some serious drubbings to some teams.

i have to agree.

i expect most training sessions so far have been about the players steadfastly learning guardiola's tactical wishes up to the final third of the pitch.
once they have followed those specific guidelines and are in & around the penalty area, that's when it's down to their own ingenuity,
but that understanding of each other can only come with game-time together.

it's still a new way of playing for them,
it changes & is added to as guardiola gives them more and more things to work on each game
and this is only the start!

the final balls will indeed improve, especially as the new players get to know their mates
and when it does start to fully click in & around the opposition's box, we are going to be formidable.

that said, a bit of good fortune here & there might also help.
something i feel we haven't benefitted from too often just yet.

 

[Shaelumstash]

Had we scored the two penalties and beat a very good, well managed and determined Everton side 3-1. Would we all of a sudden played well?
Had we stuck 3 passed a very solid parked bus, woukd we still have been poor in the final third?

Add in the two career-best saves from Aguero and De Bruyne's efforts, there's 5-1 on another day.

Anyone who claimed we weren't good going forward on Saturday and didn't create many chances certainly wasn't at the game, and I assume was relying on a dodgy stream with Martyn Tyler and Danny Mills on commentary.

 

[Dax777]

Had we scored the two penalties and beat a very good, well managed and determined Everton side 3-1. Would we all of a sudden played well?
Had we stuck 3 passed a very solid parked bus, woukd we still have been poor in the final third?

If we had many created chances and stuck 3 passed them? Yes I would have concluded we did. And had we won by scoring one the 2 penalties, I'd have concluded we deserved to win. Funny enough, it is still my opinion now that we deserved to win that game even though we failed to. But this has little to do with whether i thought our movement in the final 3rd was impressive and thus our overall play was good or great. I don't.

 

[Dax777]

Add in the two career-best saves from Aguero and De Bruyne's efforts, there's 5-1 on another day.

Anyone who claimed we weren't good going forward on Saturday and didn't create many chances certainly wasn't at the game, and I assume was relying on a dodgy stream with Martyn Tyler and Danny Mills on commentary.

Are here comes Shael with the dodgy stream argument. Can someone who lives in the state confirm once and for all that every premier league game is shown on TV please!

Let's put to rest the silly, so we can discuss the legitimate.

 

[schfc6]

If we had many created chances and stuck 3 passed them? Yes I would have concluded we did. And had we won by scoring one the 2 penalties, I'd have concluded we deserved to win. Funny enough, it is still my opinion now that we deserved to win that game even though we failed to. But this has little to do with whether i thought our movement in the final 3rd was impressive and thus our overall play was good or great. I don't.

That's where we differ, I think creating 5 or 6 excellent chances against a top side who've parked the bus equates to some excellent attacking play.
To create that many chances against such a well organised and determine defence is pretty good for me.

Had we taken one of our chances, Everton would have been a different animal and we'd have created many more chances.

This is my argument, fans need to take into consideration the opposition.

 

[Shaelumstash]

That's where we differ, I think creating 5 or 6 excellent chances against a top side who've parked the bus equates to some excellent attacking play.
To create that many chances against such a well organised and determine defence is pretty good for me.

Had we taken one of our chances, Everton would have been a different animal and we'd have created many more chances.

This is my argument, fans need to take into consideration the opposition.

It was in the Daily Mail today, David Silva created 7 chances on Saturday, more than any other player in the league.

We created more than enough chances to win the game.

@Dax777 the more I read your posts the more convinced I am that you've never attended a top class match in person. You appear blinded to the difference between watching a game on NBC and sitting in the stands and observing what's going on off the ball. In fact, you've alluded in the past that what's going on off camera isn't overly important. Bananas.

Everton put up one of the best defensive displays I've seen on Saturday. They regularly had 9 or 10 players in the box. It's pretty difficult to find space in that situation, yet we still created nearly 20 chances. Not bad, considering.

 

[Dax777]

Not in a position to argue with you in relation to the instances you note so I will accept that you observed what you did fro where ever it was you watched the match. But I stick by my general comments that we played very well and while we could have been even better I would not agree that we were sluggish in the final third. This was a very fine Everton defensive performance full stop.

I guess it comes down to our framing of the situation: If you thought Everton were fantastic defensively, then it is easier to conclude we played great. And any successes against a team playing great defense supports the notion we played great. And any failures to breach that defense simply supports the claims of how good the defense played. So it's hard to beat that argument that we played great if we belief the defense was great. As the claimit builds on itself in a self fulfilling cycle kind of way.

On the other hand, If you think Everton's defense was just okay, and not uniquely good exemplified by how often Sane and Sterling had their individual man beat, by how easily Nolito was able (albeit via intelligent work by Nolito) to lose his man constantly, by how often the defense resulted to last gasp lunges ( the 3 penalties calls being testament to this) then one can also make the opposite conclusion that it wasnt a great defense at all, and thus a failure to breach it often suggest sluggishness on the part if the offense.

More likely than not the truth lies somewhere in between. As in fairness, as I am thinking of Everton's defense, I am not thinking of their keeper as part of it, which in fact he is. As I am thinking about breaking down the players protecting the goalie from shots on goal. But in its totality (I.e including the Keeper) one could admit to the defense being great, yet still highlight our sluggishness in creating enough to get to him in the first place.