Claudio Bravo

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Some of you act like South American football isn't an incredibly physical endeavor. There's always a possibility of Bravo not adapting to our league but as I've said before on this site I think the idea that the PL is this massively different and physical brand of football is tremendously overrated. Especially when compared against non European football. England does not have a monopoly on this stuff.
 
Shaelumstash said:
Sorry mate, I think you misunderstood me there. When I said who would Stoke or West Brom prefer to target I didn't mean who would they prefer to buy. I mean if they were setting up a game plan to target a keeper with long balls and roughing them up physically, who would they see as the softer touch.

I haven't seen enough of Bravo to make an informed decision about all of his goalkeeping attributes. But I have seen his physicality and he reminds me of the slight build and presence that De Gea had when he came to the PL and he found the adjustment very difficult to begin with. Nothing to do with technique or talent, but to do with physicality. It's very important for a goalkeeper in the PL.

Regarding Steklenburg, I've seen him a fair few times and I don't rate him at all. Hart is on another planet.

I think they was a time around 2012 / 2013 when Hart was in the conversation about the second best goalkeeper in the world. He has maybe not kicked on, but he is a fine goalkeeper. He made two high profile mistakes in the Euro's and the media narrative has been that he had a disasterous Euro's and he's been scapegoated for England leaving the tournament early. It happens at every tournament and this time it's Joe's turn.

I completely understand the limitation of Hart and that he isn't the perfect fit for Pep. But after 10 years of being a top keeper for us I think he at least deserves a season to try and prove himself and work on his game. Even if it's as a number 2. He has earned the right to try. That's why I think there is more to this than purely footballing reasons.
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Hart doesn't want that though, or shouldn't. He has his national team position to worry about. That position is nnow under threat. Even if he goes on to start at a different club. He'd have to prove he is still top end. Staying as a #2 is simply not a good choice for anyone. Not Hart, Not the new keeper, not City.

P.S: Sorry I misunderstood your targeting claim. But really I doubt it matters who the opposition keeper is, teams play the way they play. Stoke isn't really a long ball specialist team anymore even though they still carry the label. They are probably one of the more continental styled playing teams these days with their fancy ex Barca rethreads everywhere. Perhaps West Brom then. But I doubt they care much whether it is Bravo or Hart in the opposition's net. They'll attack both the same way when they can. Funny enough though, having a keeper who actually keeps possession for your team, reduces the number of times the West Broms of the world are able to attack in the first place.
 
Dax777 said:
Hart doesn't want that though, or shouldn't. He has his national team position to worry about. That position is nnow under threat. Even if he goes on to start at a different club. He'd have to prove he is still top end. Staying as a #2 is simply not a good choice for anyone. Not Hart, Not the new keeper, not City.

P.S: Sorry I misunderstood your targeting claim. But really I doubt it matters who the opposition keeper is, teams play the way they play. Stoke isn't really a long ball specialist team anymore even though they still carry the label. They are probably one of the more continental styled playing teams these days with their fancy ex Barca rethreads everywhere. Perhaps West Brom then. But I doubt they care much whether it is Bravo or Hart in the opposition's net. They'll attack both the same way when they can. Funny enough though, having a keeper who actually keeps possession for your team, reduces the number of times the West Broms of the world are able to attack in the first place.
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Moreover, Hart would almost certainly prefer to start for a side playing in the UCL. Everton is second-tier and IMO would hurt his chances of retaining his England #1 especially on top of his poor Euro performance.

I think Hart will end up at Sevilla.
 
Shaelumstash said:
Fair point mate, but there's probably a fair bit of naivety in Europe about the physicality of the PL.

I'm sure Bravo will do an outstanding job of playing the ball out from the back. I'm sure he will pull off some outstanding saves from 25 yard shots. I'm sure he'll save his fair share of 1 on 1s.

But how will he do defending corners against Andy Carroll? How will he do commanding his box against West Brom?

I'm not bringing out the old "Can he do it at Stoke on a wet Wednesday night" but the physicality of the Premier League is a huge difference for a goal keeper to adjust to.

David De Gea who is now probably the best keeper in the league was like a rabbit in the headlights in his first season. He was a soft touch initially and teams targeted him specifically. Gary Neville at one point was questioning whether he was cut out for the Premier League.

The difference was, De Gea was 21, he had plenty of room to develop physically. Plenty of time to get in the gym, fill out, and adapt his game.

Bravo is 33. He's played his entire career in South America and Spain. He's not going to develop physically at his age. He's probably not going to adapt his game and start dominating the box against physical teams who rely on set pieces.

It's strange how people are only talking about Hart's flaws and Bravo's strengths. If you reversed it, ask yourself who the likes of Stoke, West Brom, Hull etc would fancy targeting.
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Oh come on. If he was gonna be playing keeper in Sunday league like I did for a decade I'd agree. But to say the premier league is physical for keepers is 20 years out of date.

Forwards can't touch them.
 
Terra Passenger said:
Moreover, Hart would almost certainly prefer to start for a side playing in the UCL. Everton is second-tier and IMO would hurt his chances of retaining his England #1 especially on top of his poor Euro performance.

I think Hart will end up at Sevilla.
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Got balls if he moves abroad.
 
Terra Passenger said:
Yup. Key to Pep's style is what happens after a turn over - if we cannot get the ball back quickly w'e're going to be very vulnerable.

And yes, likely we'll concede most of our goals on set pieces once we start playing well.

But against Sunderland, our offense wasn't really in sync yet. The buildup was ponderous with players unsure of where to move or to pass the ball. Also we were missing Sane, Gundogan and Kompany and de Bruyne, Silva and Aguero looked tired.

Bottom line - our offense will improve tremendously and once we get a suitable keeper, out ball retention will be even higher (probably not 78% as against Sunderland but very high nonetheless).

Our system worked against Sunderland - we dominated possession, they had few chances, and in spite of our ponderous build-up and relative lack of chances created, we deservedly won.

I don't think that this is a "it works in the Spanish league but not in the EPL" system by any stretch.

Where I think we'll struggle is against teams like Spurs or Pool that press, press, press. Any mistake we make, they get the ball, and they have the pace to punish on the counter.
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Mate, you're completely misquoting me there. I'm not sure if you're doing it deliberately, but I'll just clear things up for you.

I believe in Pep's system, I think it will work here. I understand completely how it works, and I understand the reasons behind getting another keeper in who is good on the ball.

I'm not sure where you have got the system "works in the Spanish league but not in the EPL" line from? I've certainly never said it. So you've either misunderstood my point, you're quoting someone else or you're being deliberately provacative.

What I said was different in the PL from Spain is the physicality and that it takes some goalkeepers time to adjust to that aspect and I used De Gea as an example. No mention whatsoever that the system won't work.
 
Shaelumstash said:
M
What I said was different in the PL from Spain is the physicality and that it takes some goalkeepers time to adjust to that aspect and I used De Gea as an example. No mention whatsoever that the system won't work.
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I simply don't see this at all. What's different between the leagues in this respect?
 
Shaelumstash said:
Fair point mate, but there's probably a fair bit of naivety in Europe about the physicality of the PL.
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Champions & Europa Leagues, there is no naivety there.

Not sure you're saying anything less than what I alluded to earlier, it's been more than a decade of Barcelona's influence in the game. The myth of ball playing defenders, short attackers & midfielders who lacked the brute strength of quasi rugby styled footballers on a wet night in Stoke?

Come on, it's 2016. You do realize Kun was panned when he arrived in the Premiership despite anyone following the Primera knowing full well his quality. The Premiership is now littered with players of this style.

And Bravo needs to bulk up and hit the gym? Like I said, let's revisit in 6 months or so
 
FCBarca said:
Champions & Europa Leagues, there is no naivety there.

Not sure you're saying anything less than what I alluded to earlier, it's been more than a decade of Barcelona's influence in the game. The myth of ball playing defenders, short attackers & midfielders who lacked the brute strength of quasi rugby styled footballers on a wet night in Stoke?

Come on, it's 2016. You do realize Kun was panned when he arrived in the Premiership despite anyone following the Primera knowing full well his quality. The Premiership is now littered with players of this style.

And Bravo needs to bulk up and hit the gym? Like I said, let's revisit in 6 months or so
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+1

I expect that Bravo will be the top keeper in the PL- eclipsing the excellent de Gea, Courtios, LLoris and Cech.
 
I can't believe Everton, Liverpool or Arsenal aren't desperate to get Joe!
I think it's a win win if we loan him to Sevilla, he'll have a very good season & come back worth more... (Possibly coming back being able to play the sweeper keeper role after a year in Spain)
Really hope we get bravo signed soon!
 
SWP's back said:
Oh come on. If he was gonna be playing keeper in Sunday league like I did for a decade I'd agree. But to say the premier league is physical for keepers is 20 years out of date.

Forwards can't touch them.
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Wait, so you're saying there's no difference in physicality between La Liga and the Premier League? I'm not sure if you're taking the piss or not?
 
Bravo is a more complete keeper than anyone in the league right now. And to be honest, after watching that performance against Steaua I couldn't help but see why he's so important to Pep's style. The final piece of the puzzle IMO.
 
gomer27 said:
the physicality on the keepers is no different
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I disagree.

Look at the difference physically between De Gea physically when he first arrived to a couple of years later. He improved his technique no doubt, but the physical chance was huge.

At first he used to get bullied physically, he was lightweight and came out flapping at things. Now he's solid, he can dominate his box.

 
Shaelumstash said:
I disagree.

Look at the difference physically between De Gea physically when he first arrived to a couple of years later. He improved his technique no doubt, but the physical chance was huge.

At first he used to get bullied physically, he was lightweight and came out flapping at things. Now he's solid, he can dominate his box.

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Big difference between a kid and a grown man with bags of experience
 
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